|
Post by Chris on Oct 10, 2005 19:40:08 GMT -8
What is everyone's opinion on coaches actively contacting players on an existing team and trying to steal them during the current tournament season?
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 10, 2005 21:42:34 GMT -8
I know that I wouldnt do it.
There are several ways to do things without resorting to these kinds of things. Plus in Super Series that cant be done as the MANAGER has to release the player in order for him to be eligeble to play on another team (dont know how the other organizations work though).
BUT, I can see talking to a kids parents during a CURRENT season about joining a new team for the NEXT season.
That is usually how Elite teams are formed. a coach from one of the stronger teams will recruit the best players not on his team and add them while releasing the ones he has that arent as good, making his team stronger AND at the same time making the other strong teams weaker. ------------------------
about 2 months ago i was looking to add some 17's to my 16U team but i knew the ones i wanted were committed to a team that was TRYING to form. so i contacted the coach and asked what their odds were of actually forming a team. and proceeded to tell him i was interested in 4 of his players (1 was his son), when he told me that the odds of him getting enough players was low i asked him if HE could talk to his players and see if they were interested in joining with my team (even though i could have contacted them myself as i know them).
as for my latest aquisition, got him about a week ago, after playng his (former) team.
after we played them a DH'er i spoke with the coach and he told we that those were his last games with that team. so i proceeded to ask him if it was OK to talk to one of his players. i actually changed my mind and told him to ask the kid if he was interested in playing with us to come and talk to me (as i was going to do post game field prep to THS's field).
after talking to his coach the kid came over and spoke to me and i picked him up.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Oct 11, 2005 8:12:24 GMT -8
Yeah I have no problem talking about next year or under the conditions you were speaking about. But trying to steal kids to form a team stinks. Especially, when its styealing from "friends" in the same town. It's a long story bud...
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 11, 2005 20:28:16 GMT -8
is this the team that was going to be BYB and then instead became Rangers?
and
are the CV Rivercats now BYB?
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Oct 11, 2005 21:59:07 GMT -8
Not exactly. The Rangers were developing a team and I believe BYB was as well. BYB didn't get one off the ground until recently. I believe only 1 maybe 2 players from our Ranger team had at one time considered playing for the BYB. The BYB team didn't form so they decided to play for the Rangers. Most of the players are from the Angels & Giants with one or two being referred by Craig Cumberland. I believe the new 11U BYB team was developed using Rivercat players.
|
|
|
Post by byb manager on Oct 26, 2005 12:26:33 GMT -8
....
|
|
|
Post by BYB Supporters on Oct 26, 2005 12:33:26 GMT -8
What gets me about all you cry babies is you guys think that travel ball is so much like little league when it is not. You have to recruit players you think that are a good fit not all players are good enough even though maybe the parents think so. On top of that why can't men be men and come to the managers of these teams and ask them but instead they have to put their skirts on and talk crap on the web site so kids can read them.
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 26, 2005 12:41:38 GMT -8
1. i don't think travel is like LL. i quit coaching LL 2 years ago, after winning 3 straight City Championships Majors and Juniors), because in Travel we get to face top competition and some of my players were to advanced for LL. LL has too many restriction. In travel I am the boss and what I say is what goes. i don't have to worry about minimum playing time violations, and other petty silliness. In travel the talent on field is what rules.
2. i don't know you and i am sure you don't know me
3. the Founder of BYB is one of my better friends. i am sure you aren't Bob or you would have recognized me from all my Dodger Blue Logos
what little i know or think i know about teams that formed and didn't form came from BYB,
and in reality i could care less about little 10 year old teams that i know nothing about.
i simply came here and asked and answered some questions based on what i heard and what i would and wouldn't do.
have a nice day
Mark Perez Turlock Warriors
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 26, 2005 16:09:58 GMT -8
What gets me about all you cry babies is you guys think that travel ball is so much like little league when it is not. You have to recruit players you think that are a good fit not all players are good enough even though maybe the parents think so. . 1. every1 thinks their kids are good enough, fact is Turlock probly produces 3 or 4 quality travel ball players in each age division. some years more than others, some might produce 5 or 6 other might produce 1 or 2. 2. Travel is NOTHING like LL. LL is for fun. Travel is to WIN. 3. Yes, you do have to recruit really goods players if you want to win. fact is though it is pretty unethical to recruit players from another team. If i were a manager that had players that jumped ship after being recruited by another manager who knew that they playd for me and took them from me anyways i wouldNOT release the players. Players are committed to 1 team in Super Series. only way they can change is by being released. I, personally, would NEVER release a player who was recruited away from me during a current season.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Oct 26, 2005 20:59:42 GMT -8
LMAO! You come in here without identifying yourself and want to talk about being a man. It's not too tough to be a good manager when you just steal good players from other teams. Apparently, the manager you are refering to didn't feel the need to discuss his recruiting intentions with the Ranger's manager.
Gotta respect what our 12s have done with just local talent. 3 weeks ago they beat last year's Winter National Champion Twin City Twins to win the title at Pedretti. Gosh they didn't steal a single player. Now that's managing.
What morons like you don't understand is that the Rangers are more than just about winning. Silly huh? Pfff...Yeah, lets limit travel ball to only the very best players. Eventually, you'll have no teams. I say let them play. Its still suppose to be about learning, building character and yes having fun or why would any kid want to play?
Come back when you want to create a rational argument for what we're discussing. As for BYB. I have no problem with them and appreciate the help they have provide so many local kids.
Do you also defend having 11 year olds playing in a 10U tournament in San Jose a few weeks ago? This wonderful manager you are referring to borrowed 2 of our players under the pretense they would be playing as 11s. He lied straight to my face and said the team played up as the 11s. Want the link that shows they played as 10s? Yeah, they won the tournament but big whoop. What does cheating teach our kids?
Quit defending tacky behavior, show some class and integrity. You could also be a man and quit hiding behind an alias. I ain't hiding.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Oct 26, 2005 21:30:04 GMT -8
Oh, BTW, you're worrying about kids coming here? Do you really think they care about this forum? I'd say a lively debate wins over teaching them to cheat any day.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaypark on Oct 27, 2005 20:08:09 GMT -8
When a coach steals players from another team it shows what type of a person they are. They are not giving the players and or coaches of the former team the respect that the game of baseball represents.
Too many times you see coaches that are trying to live out their dreams that were unfulfilled and pit one team against another. These players are kids and the adults that are stealing them, with I am sure a lot of promises, need to realize that it takes a team to win a game. How can you trust your teammate when you see another coach lurking in the shadows patting your buddy on the back?
RESPECT for the game needs to exist, not the stroking of an ego.
|
|
innocent by stander
Guest
|
Post by innocent by stander on Oct 28, 2005 9:10:44 GMT -8
Speaking on this subjest and seeing how you want to point fingers. There was a tournament the first of the year at Pedretti that I personally observed the 10 year old Turlock Rangers playing with 5 illegal players one of them being 12 years old. The sad thing about it is alot of the people that are bad mouthing the BYB team was in the stands cheering for this team and then they want to turn around and point fingers. How can these people bad mouth one team when a team that is part of their organization has done the exact same thing but not with one but 5 illegal players. How can you people fault a coach when parents approach him and ask if their son can play on a different team. I feel it should be the parents that talk to the present manager and let him know they want to change and we should not say the manager is trying to steal players when he is the innocent one in the whole situation. The last thing to say is by the way the Rangers won that tournament and was celebrating their victory with 5 illegal players and then on top of that hearing parents say they were worried about someone who knows them saying something to the tournament director even though one of his sons was one of the illegal players. So you tell me who is actually teaching their kids that cheating is ok when you have 5 illegal players and celebrate winning a tournament and are just happy you got away with the win without getting caught. I consider alot of the friends and parents of the Ranger organization my friends and I could care less how they win the main thing is the kids are having fun making alot of new friends. I respect the whole Ranger organization. I think we all have one goal in common and that is to make all the kids better ball players and to hope they have a bright future ahead of them as far as baseball. All we want to do is see the kids excell and be great baseball players so why can't we just put the jealousy aside and be happy for the kids.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Oct 28, 2005 11:17:42 GMT -8
You can't be talking about the 11U Rangers. And y do you keep making this about the BYB. The BYB team to my knowledge didn't use ineligible players and no one is suggesting that. Of course, I cheer for the kids on the BYB team. Sportmanship and integrity is what this is all about. The kids aren't making these decisions. Geez!
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Oct 28, 2005 11:54:20 GMT -8
How can you people fault a coach when parents approach him and ask if their son can play on a different team. you can and you cant. and here is why. the coach will look like the bad guy regardless of if it was the parent asking a new coach or if the coach actually recruited. The coach will appear to have recruited either way. I feel it should be the parents that talk to the present manager and let him know they want to change and we should not say the manager is trying to steal players when he is the innocent one in the whole situation. it shouold be the parents but they need to talk to THEIR manager and tell them the situation first so that it doesnt appear that some1 else is recruiting from them. ill tell you what and i am glad i havent had it happen to me, but i know others that it has happen to. its the shits when you have a team of 12 players and 5 or 6 get recruited away and your stuck without a team and 6 innocent players are stuck with nothing.
|
|