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Post by bystander on Oct 28, 2005 12:29:06 GMT -8
Mr Essray did you not say that they lied to you about the tournament in San Jose and use Illegal players and as I put in my last reply I did not say the 11u I said the 10U WHICH IS PART OF YOUR ORGANIZATION. But you know what I do not really care the only way to get better is to play the better teams not mtter who the players are because in LL you have 10,11,12 years old all playing together so why is it such a big deal and why can't so called friends and neighbors just be happy for the kids and not worry about all the politics that are involved the kids are innocent. The final decision should be the kids as far as what team he wants to play with as long as he getting to play. It does not matter who recruited who.
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Post by Chris Essary on Oct 28, 2005 13:23:13 GMT -8
Mr. Murphy ~
If that is the case I condem their behavior as well. So called friends don't attempt to recruit youngstersd away from a team when they know the net effect would be the collapse of the team. Maybe we need to go get a cup of coffee.
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Post by fenwaypark on Oct 28, 2005 18:35:03 GMT -8
Mr. Essary,
I commend your willingness to try and sit down and talk. Being our 3rd year involved with travel ball, I have watched one very successful local team go down the drain because of coaches and also in this case a parent. I have watched this one parent shuffle his son around like a card of decks from team to team. At every stop, the outcome has been destruction of a team that once was very successful. His fellow teammates are left behind and the parent basks in the limelight of their son's abilities. It is the parents right to move their son, but they too need to look back at the destruction that they have caused as a result of it. The question here is this...are the boys really having fun? When do they get a break from baseball? Will they be burnt out by the time they get to high school? Will their love of the game be destroyed because their parents loved all of the accolades and in each case thought their son was better than the rest. Without thought, they shop around until they find others that are willing to put their sons second, because they never made it to the big leagues. Mr. Essary, I have no idea what team you are involved with, but from what I have read, you do not seem to be one of the "lurking coaches" that are willing to ruin one team for the betterment of their own. Maybe it is time to quit looking at these boys as work horses for the game of baseball. Maybe it is time to make it a sport that is played only 6 months a year. The affiliations are making all the money. When was the last time anyone asked their son if they were truly having a good time? Chances are slim. Do you want you son to love the game or come to resent it? Something needs to change. It starts with the coaches and the parents that are out to only benefit themselves. Is being a champion that important to sell your soul? Some of you coaches out there need to look at what you are doing and the examples you are setting for these kids. It will come back eventually and you will be left holding nothing, but don't worry you will have all of those trophies that your wives hate to dust and probably the lack of respect from your own son for what they have watched you do.
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Post by Chris on Oct 28, 2005 21:51:05 GMT -8
Fenway ~ I appreciate and respect your comments. I agree with much of what you said. It's a little off topic but that's ok because this forum is for speaking your mind. "Stealing" was probably a poor choice of words. Our kids are not property nor a commodity to be traded or acquired. This thread started with a rather generic question that didn't identify a team or any individual. Quite frankly the only people who express their opinion with any regularity in this forum are Mcleanhatch and myself. I knew he would respond and I appreciate his perspective. I am the parent of an 11 year old who was asked to join the Rangers last year. He was thrilled and flattered to be asked and I believe he is genuinely enjoying being a member of the team. He/we have made some wonderful friendships. What is perhaps unique about the 10U, 11U, 12U Ranger teams is that all of the youngsters (with one exception that I am aware of) are from the Turlock area. They also play in the Turlock National & American Little Leagues. One of the reasons I have been so impressed with the Ranger organization (I use the term loosely as each team really does operate independently) is that it has never been all about "winning." It's the win at all cost attitude that ruins the experience for the kids. It sounds like that was your experience. What message is that child receiving being bounced from team to team? The Ranger philosophy is articulated on our web-site eteamz.com/turlockrangers. It's a terrific set of values that our 12U coach (Craig Cumberland) crafted. The focus is the "team" not the individual. The philosophy statement serves as a contract to which the players and parents must agree. It spells out the expectations very clearly. Yes, it requires a tremendous commitment. However, if you notice its doesn't place winning first. Rather it espouses that winning is a byproduct of hard work, sacrifice, and the willingness to subvert one's own interest for the best interest of the "team." Remove baseball from the Ranger's philosophy statement and you'll see what remains is a set of values which will serve our kids well even in adulthood. Isn't that really what we hope our children receive from their involvement in organized sports? Yes, I think we'd all like to win and win a lot. However, perhaps an even more important life lesson is in losing. Losing isn't fun for the kids but it teaches resilence and the ability to overcome obsticles. In reality, for whatever perverse reason parents seem to take losing harder than the kids. Have no fear, I believe in recognizing those feelings and working to place them in the appropriate perspective we'll free our kid's from the burden of attaining our unfilled dreams. You had it exactly right. That parent to whom you referred sold out his or her child to win. I can't possibly believe that it was the child's choice to jump teams. In so doing, the child only learns selfishness. In closing, you should know that my son wants to be a skater or a fireman when he grows up. I promise you, as longs as he strives to be the best at whatever he chooses to do I'll be as proud as if he we're pitching in game 7.
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Post by fenwaypark on Oct 29, 2005 7:59:42 GMT -8
Mr. Essary, If we had more parents and teams, the Rangers, that exhibit this belief, we probably would not have the problems that are existent with teams "stealing" players. I applaud you more as a parent. Hopefully some of the coaches will read your posting and take a deep, hard look in the mirror. What the Rangers want for their players is the same belief of the team my son is on. I applaud you. I applaud the Turlock Ranger organization. Whenever we have played them, the players, coaches and parents obviously have a respect and love for the game. More importantly, they have the love and respect for their sons. Too bad there weren't more teams that foucsed on that, than the # of wins or trophies they can brag about.
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Post by Tony Murphy on Oct 31, 2005 12:25:39 GMT -8
Mr. Essray I still consider you a good friend and sometimes friends do not see eye to eye but contrary to what people think about me or the way I coach winning is not everything. I let my son make most of his choices on what sports he would like to play and I never tell him he can not do a sport he would like to try for instance this year was the first year he played football and he enjoyed it not once did I try to discourage that. I have played many levels of baseball myself and do not need to live it through my child as people have commented. If he wanted to stop playing today it would not make me mad one little bit and on top of that I would still like to coach because I enjoy the kids not just my own kid. You can ask the kids that play for me I tell everyone of them that you will not win every game and you will not get a hit every time at bat. I try and make it fun for everybody and I am a firm beleiver of positive reenforcement because at this age they respond better to being positive than being negative but sometime we do loose sight that these are younger kids and get a little carried away and yes sometimes we do get caught up in the games and make mistakes on how we handle certain situations but then we take a step back and realize why we are doing this, for the kids and as many people think that all I care about is winning ask any of the parents of the kids that are playing for me now or have played for me in the past and they will tell you I am not all about the spot light or wins or trophies or any accolades. Chris you should know that better than anybody because Myself and Craig are the ones who got your son involved. Last but not least I would personally like to address the so called attempt of trying to steal players not once have I asked a kid or parents to come play for a team that I have coached unless it was brought to me that they were looking for another team and I would give them an option of playing on my team if they wanted and if those players refused to play on a team that I coached I have no bad feelings at all. I would love to see all the kids in Turlock succeed because my son is friends with alot of those kids and I would do nothing in this world to take that away from him. But on the other hand my son has not once been asked to play for the Turlock Rangers so he plays for other teams and I am the bad guy supposedly trying to steal players. As I recall about 2 years ago myself and Craig Cumberland started the Ranger Organization and because my son was to young to play with the majority of the kids we had to move on to another direction and started playing and because we have been successful I have become such a bad person in the Turlock Baseball World well I am sorry for the people that feel that way toward me because that is not what I am all about and I would be willing to help any kids on any of the Turlock teams as much as I would my own so if people really feel this way toward me why don't we sit down and have a cup of coffee and talk like grown adults because believe me I can handle constructive criticism if it will make me a better person.
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Post by Chris Essary on Oct 31, 2005 14:17:24 GMT -8
Tony ~
My comments to Fenway (above) were related to the coach her son had experienced. I would never suggest that you had anything but your son's best interest at heart. In my interactions with him I have always found him to be polite, respectful, funny and a joy to be around. He's a great kid and Jens & I like him very much. That didn't happen by chance. That's a result of good & loving parents.
If you feel I was directing any of those comments to you and the relationship you have with you son I apologize that was never my intention.
It is time I buy you a cup of coffee and try to discuss this in person. I received your message today and haven't gotten back to you as my day has been really hectic. I know that it may take a while and I wanted to give our conversation the attention it deserves.
I'll give you a buz in a couple of hours if that works for you.
Chris
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Post by Mark on Oct 31, 2005 14:19:20 GMT -8
now after hearing both sides of the story, it appears that it might have been a couple of parents (that tried to or did jump teams) that started all of this???
and the managers got caught in the middle of it all
thats too bad. hope all can recover from this situation
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Post by Tony Murphy on Oct 31, 2005 14:40:13 GMT -8
Chris and Mcleanhatch I have recovered fine I would never let words of people that can not talk to me face to face tear up a friendship that I truly value. The thing that is so bad about all of this is people thinking that I am all about winning when I am truly all about the kids not once will you hear me say a bad word about another kids ability or anything else about the way a kid plays a certain sport. I truly believe the way the kids act after a win or loss is truely a reflection of the coaches and I will always tell my kids you win with class and you lose with class. Out of all of this I wish people in the city of Turlock would really get to know someone before they start making derogitory comments about them. It is pretty bad when the manager of one of the teams in your own town will not shake your hand after you beat him in a game or even speak to you any other time.
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Post by Mark on Oct 31, 2005 14:44:10 GMT -8
It is the parents right to move their son, not exactly. it is the parents RIGHT to pull their kid off the current team. but they dont have the right to move them to another team. there are rules against that. the final decision for that falls on the original manager to release the player. but they too need to look back at the destruction that they have caused as a result of it. yes they do
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Post by Mark on Oct 31, 2005 14:47:24 GMT -8
oh ya by the way good luck up in Sacramento.
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Post by Tony Murphy on Oct 31, 2005 16:27:52 GMT -8
Mcleanhatch thank you for your support and we will try and do our best we are trying to put the final touch on the team that will be going to Arizona in December if you know any 10's that maybe interested let me know the dates are 12/26/05-1/02/05 in Peoria Arizona.
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Post by Mark on Oct 31, 2005 16:40:23 GMT -8
i will try and keep an ear open but most of the kids i know are in the 13-18 range
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Post by Anonymous on Nov 2, 2005 13:24:14 GMT -8
Regarding the comment about the one parent that shuffles their kid around from Team to Team and ends up leaving it in shambles? WOW, that kid must be a hell of a ball player to then leave the winning team and then it fall apart...lol....My point is, "One player doesn't make a Team, therefore you cannot build a Team around one player"! Get off your pitty pot Fenway. Sounds like this kid must have been on your team at one point for you to hold so much anger towards the parent.
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Post by Mark on Nov 2, 2005 13:57:14 GMT -8
....My point is, "One player doesn't make a Team, therefore you cannot build a Team around one player"!. but you are wrong, because you can build around 1 player. if that player is a lights out every time dominant pitcher, you can build a team around him. of course the rest of the team has to also be very good. Dominant pitchers dont come around to often (not even at the younger levels where kids talent is more close) and wheen you have one he can single handedly put you in position to win championships everytime. i know as i have had one kid playing for me for 6 years now that does just that!!!
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