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Post by knezme on Dec 13, 2006 12:28:00 GMT -8
WOW ..........that was insightful woody9.
Did crash also teach you how to turn your LITTLE YUGO into an Escalade??
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Post by trevor9 on Dec 13, 2006 12:38:43 GMT -8
Easy Cable Guy, remember you have a ways to go to compete at my level. Stick with the bad jokes about Crash. I'll let you know when you're on deck until then......grab some pine meat!
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Post by crash23 on Dec 13, 2006 12:47:47 GMT -8
Let's not kid anyone. The new travel team is having tryouts for a reason.
I do understand what you're saying Tony. I think it's important to develop local talent but every program is different and has diferent goals. Just b/c one coach wants to assemble an all star team and another wants to develop local talent, it doesn't make either wrong.
I believe you can develop local talent and win. It's been my experience that although a local team can be comepetitive and win tournaments, it will be tough to regularly beat teams made up of the best players from an entire region. That's not to say you can't make the players on your team better in the process, but it's like a D1 college playing a D2 college. The odds are in favor ofthe D1 team. That being said our players only become as good as they are willing to work.
Most of these nationally ranked travel teams are as good as they are b/c they have 12 players that work very hard at their game, take lessons, work additional hours in addtion to their practices, go to camps and clinics and play almost year round.
Your son is as good as he is b/c he's put in more time than most. How many other players are as good as he is? Very few. Can the other local players become that good? Only if they put in the time. So yes, we can form a local team and become great - if the players are willing to work at it...
Part of a coach's job is to evaluate talent. When players show up for tryouts and a coach sees limitations that doesn't mean these players can't be developed - and one of the greatest satisfactions a coach can have is seeing a player blossom under his tutelage... but there are limitations that all players have. Speed for example. It's, for the most part, a God-given gift. It can't be replaced. So someone like my son may be able to play OF and catch what's hit to him but he'll never be as good as a player that's truly fast (and can also catch the ball). I'm not putting my son down when I say that, it's just a fact. All the work on his part will never make him Kenny Lofton.
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Post by trevor9 on Dec 13, 2006 13:29:22 GMT -8
Kenny Lofton? yes he has played for 16 years in the bigs but for 10 different teams. My point is that just because you are fast doesn't mean that you can't be replaced. How many track stars translate to great recievers in the nfl? You need more than one tool to be successful, I'll take a slower 3 or 4 tool player if he can play the game. Don't get me wrong I'd love to have 10 jackrabbits on our team but if they can't hit or catch what good is it? Speed doesn't grow on trees out here those are almonds Crash.
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Post by Chris on Dec 13, 2006 13:34:38 GMT -8
I agree with Craig, Brett will never be a 39 year old black guy from Chicago.
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Post by crash23 on Dec 13, 2006 14:03:46 GMT -8
Kenny Lofton? yes he has played for 16 years in the bigs but for 10 different teams. My point is that just because you are fast doesn't mean that you can't be replaced. How many track stars translate to great recievers in the nfl? You need more than one tool to be successful, I'll take a slower 3 or 4 tool player if he can play the game. Don't get me wrong I'd love to have 10 jackrabbits on our team but if they can't hit or catch what good is it? Speed doesn't grow on trees out here those are almonds Crash. Ya missed the part where I inferred that all things being equal the fast guy always wins out.
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Post by tmurphy on Dec 13, 2006 16:50:27 GMT -8
Craig you missed the whole point, it had nothing to do with forming teams. What I was referring to is these premadonna coaches that look for everyone to give him the credit for the team being successful. These coaches that think their method of developing talent is better than everyone elses. I will use our 2 sons as examples, what works for my Tyler as far as his pitching,catching, and hitting to make him successful may not be the right thing for your Brett. As far as my Tyler goes I will say one thing and that is he has worked his butt off to be where his games is today and that includes camps,practice, and games. He has put in all the work and alot of people besides dad has had a hand in him being where he is at. All I did was give him my advise and what worked for me, it is up to him to apply it. So for a coach to go out and say I developed that kid to what he is today is BS. All we can do as coaches is give the kids the opportunity and the guidance, the kids have to apply it and make it work. So I think these coaches that keep saying they are the best developer of talent need to try and quit living through the kids and tell the truth, the kids are the ones that make the coach as good as he can be with the right guidance. Also as far as local talent not being able to compete with the premier travel teams, I disagree. The Long Beach Dirtbags which beat us in Chino and went on to win the Elite 24 Qualifier was from a local league. I spoke with the coach and he said down south it is hard to build teams from all over the area because there is so many teams to choose from. Turlock has the talent to compete with the so called premier travel teams and that is all Mike is trying to do. I think alot of people are going to be surprised what this local talent is going to be able to accomplish with the right leadership and guidance. So all I can say is sit back and enjoy the ride because I will assure you, you will not be disappointed. By all means let the kids know how greatful you are that they get out there and work as hard as they do and that it is not all about the coach and his developing methods. Thanks to all the dads that also have the extra time to work with their son because that has a large part that plays in it also. By the way we may not have the fastest team out there, but it goes along with taking advantage of the opportunity that are giving to you. With good coaching and leadership you can move the defense around where that speed does not become so crucial. Any way Crash if someone did have all the right answers why do we have a different champion every year or so. By the way can Turlcok become a dynasty of baseball talent with all this great coaching knowledge. LOL,LOL, Are we having fun yet.
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Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2006 17:28:34 GMT -8
Most of these nationally ranked travel teams are as good as they are b/c they have 12 players that work very hard at their game, take lessons, work additional hours in addtion to their practices, go to camps and clinics and play almost year round. now by nationally ranked teams you mean who? i dont necesarily (SP?) know if nationally ranked teams in the 13U or lower divisions are truly accurate. i mean what if a team based out of modesto is just a really good team but not a great team but they play every week at Rainbow and come in 2nd or 3rd every week and accululate enough points to be consided a top 10 Nationally ranked team? does that really make them a nationally ranked team? i dont think so. at the younger age groups its hard to tell because a team can be hot and dpminating in March but by July many other teams might have had kids grow 5 or 6 inches and blow right by them. In My Opinion there are only 2 teams that i would consider Nationally ranked teams in Northern California and i dont think they can be beaten on a regular basis by any other teams. 1. NorCal Baseball (Considered by many as one of the Premier Teams in USA every year, at all ages 12-18)3. StarMaker Baseball Academy, who consistnly play NorCal close when they play but usually lose
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Post by crash23 on Dec 13, 2006 17:46:41 GMT -8
Agreed 100%.
Missed your point? With your fluent use of the King's English I can't imagine why! lol
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Post by crash23 on Dec 13, 2006 17:54:27 GMT -8
Uhh... teams that are ranked nationally by Super Series, USSSA, etc Sorry to be a smart ass, couldn’t resist. Some examples in my oldest son's age group (13U) are Twin City Twins, Xtreme, Soledad Diablos, SVB Yankees just to name a few.
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Post by tmurphy on Dec 13, 2006 18:25:01 GMT -8
We had played younger teams from both organization and have beaten both. These 2 organizations are alot better in the older age groups. As far as the point system set up by SS and USSSA all it means is you play in alot of tournaments not that you are nationally ranked.
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Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2006 20:48:18 GMT -8
[Some examples in my oldest son's age group (13U) are Twin City Twins, Xtreme, Soledad Diablos, SVB Yankees just to name a few. do you think that those guys can beat NorCal baseball or StarMaker Academy?
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Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2006 20:55:37 GMT -8
We had played younger teams from both organization and have beaten both. These 2 organizations are alot better in the older age groups. As far as the point system set up by SS and USSSA all it means is you play in alot of tournaments not that you are nationally ranked. tony, you played those teams that were a year younger than your team or their younger versions that were the same age as your team? i agree about the USSSA and/or Super Series Points system your team isnt an ordinary travel team. it is one of the rare times when a valley team made up of kids from this area dominates kind of like the CV Thunder 14U a couple years back (5 of its players were picked up by NorCal as freshmen) this years Seniors NorCal team has 21 players with D1 Scholarships to Major Universities and 3 possible 1st Round Draft Picks. and 3 Team USA players. not to mention this past years #5 overall draft pick out of Cal Berkeley (Brandon Morrow), next years likely first round draft pick out of Cal Berkeley (Tyson Ross), past players like Jimmy Rollins, Pat Burrell, Dontrelle Willis, CC Sabathia. to me that is what is considered a Nationally ranked team
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Post by crash23 on Dec 13, 2006 22:10:36 GMT -8
Haven't seen 'em. From the sounds of it no. There are national teams and elite national teams. Just like there's pro teams and then there's the Giants. lol I understand the point system and how teams become ranked. It's kind of a bogus list in my book. Some teams on the Super Series list are very good, some are average. That's why I chuckle when a coach brags about his team's ranking. It's not truly reprsentative of where his team ranks with all the teams in the country... just where he ranks (sort of) with the teams that play a lot of Super Series (or whatever) tournaments. It's kind of the same thing with the various travel ball "World Series" events that are held each summer. My youngest son's team finished third two summers ago at the WS. I don't for a second believe it means his team was the third best in the country. But he had a blast and is proud of his accomplishment. That's all that matters, the rest is just smoke and mirrors. The Rangers aren't ranked, but we've beaten teams on the Super Series list. Maybe we had a good day, maybe they had a bad one. Who knows, who cares. It's not about national rankings or any of that bull (for me). It's about putting together a team of like-minded players and parents that love the game and have fun. If ya win a few games it's just hot sauce on the wings
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Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2006 22:13:20 GMT -8
thats how it should be. it sounds like your kids should be well prepared for HS when the day arrives and that sure will make some varsity head coaches jobs alote easier.
its wierd how so many kids that reach HS have shit for mechanics and overall knowledge of the game.
that makes HS coaches have to start from scratch. thanks to people like yourself and tony and others HS coaches in tis area should have a blast in the years to come
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