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Post by Chris on Nov 27, 2006 19:55:27 GMT -8
I was talking about Greenie
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Post by Greenie on Nov 27, 2006 20:05:56 GMT -8
LOL
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Post by crash23 on Nov 27, 2006 20:31:23 GMT -8
OK, NOW ON TO PITCHERS (OUR ERA)… NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME*:
Tommy John – 288 wins, 2245 Ks, 3.34 ERA, 555 winning percentage Bert Blyleven – 287 wins, 3701 Ks, 3.31 ERA, .534 Jim Kaat – 283 wins, 2461 Ks, 3.45 ERA, .544 Jack Morris – 254 wins, 2478 Ks, 3.9 ERA, .577 Dennis Martinez – 245 wins, 2149 Ks, 3.7 ERA, .559 Frank Tanana - 240 wins, 2773 Ks, 3.66 ERA, .504 Mike Mussina – 239 wins, 2572 Ks, 3.63 ERA, .641 David Wells – 230 wins, 2119 Ks, 4.07 ERA, .608 Luis Tiant - 229 wins, 2416 Ks, 3.30 ERA, .571 Jerry Koosman – 222 wins, 2556 Ks, 3.36 ERA, .515 Joe Niekro – 221 wins, 1747 Ks, 3.59 ERA, .520 Jerry Reuss – 220 wins, 1907 Ks, 3.64 ERA, .535 Mickey Lolich – 217 wins, 2832 Ks, 3.44, .532 Charlie Hough – 216 wins, 2362 Ks, 3.75 ERA, .500 Jim Perry – 215 wins, 1576 Ks, 3.45 ERA, .553 Rick Reuschel – 214 wins, 2015 Ks, 3.37 ERA, .528 Kevin Brown – 211 wins, 2397 Ks, 3.28 ERA, .594 Bob Welch – 211 wins, 1969 Ks, 3.47 ERA, .591 Vida Blue – 209 wins, 2175 Ks, 3.27 ERA, .565
* Not counting Clemens, Maddux or Galvine (shoe-ins)
Every modern day pitcher (1900s) that has won except Tommy John, Bert Blyleven and Jim Kaat and Jack Quinn more than 245 games is in the Hall… Quinn is 46th on the all-time wins list (which includes pre-1900 pitchers).
Blyleven is the only retired player with more than 3,000 Ks not in the hall. He’s 26th on the all-time wins list and fifth on the strike-out list. If a hitter was 26th on the hit list and fifth on the HR list he’d be in… I knw he put up some decent stats but I didn't know he was that high on the lists. I didn't really think so before but IMO he belongs. In thinking it over he was as good, or better, than Sutton, Perry, and Niekro. The only difference is those three pushed past 300. 13 wins should not keep the man out.
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Post by Chris on Nov 27, 2006 20:35:56 GMT -8
Pitchers are harder to gauge based solely on their records. Some great pitchers languished on shitty teams, didn't get the defensive support or offense. Blyleven definitely seems deserving when you look at his numbers.
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Post by crash23 on Nov 27, 2006 21:46:06 GMT -8
True. I wonder how many wins Ryan would have had if he'd been on teams like the Dodgers or Yankees?
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Post by Chris on Nov 27, 2006 21:47:40 GMT -8
prolly 50-60 more
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Post by crash23 on Nov 27, 2006 21:52:26 GMT -8
Talking about players who got the shaft # 1 has to be Ron Santo. Compare his numbers to Brooks Robinson. Santo = 342 HRs to 268. Santo .277 to .267. Hits, Santo - 2254 to 2848... and he only played 15 years compared to Brooks 23 seasons. Santo's avrage year was 23 HRs with 150 hits adn 88RBI. Brooks was 11HR, 123 hits and 59 RBI. Santo's fielding average was .954, Brooks .971 - so you're splitting hairs. Lack of World Series titles should not strip a guy of the Hall. Santo belongs - and he's a class act. On top of that he has dealt with diabetes with grace and dignity. He exemplifies the human spirit. Vote him in before he's gone... or is that what it will take to get him in???
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Post by trevor9 on Nov 28, 2006 10:11:22 GMT -8
After reviewing the list of potential HOFers, one name should be removed immediately, "Bill Buckner". I know one play should not define a career but for God's sake this man needs to suffer a little more. He is making a mockery of that game and signing photos of that play with Mookie Wilson. I'll forgive Pete Rose but Buckner should rot in hell.
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Post by scrapper on Nov 28, 2006 10:25:34 GMT -8
Rick Reuschel – 214 wins, 2015 Ks, 3.37 ERA, .528 Kevin Brown – 211 wins, 2397 Ks, 3.28 ERA, .594 Bob Welch – 211 wins, 1969 Ks, 3.47 ERA, .591 Vida Blue – 209 wins, 2175 Ks, 3.27 ERA, .565
Are you kidding me? Kevin Brown is a waste and basically done. San Diego totally ruined his carreer, Fast Ass Rick Reushel, you got to be kidding me. What did he average what 10 wins a season.
Vida Blue at least he had three rings and was a catalyst for the pitching staff, but his numbers don't warrant HOF.
Bob Welch- He was kinda like Kevin Brown. Hall Criteria has really hit the road.
You gotta meet some criteria at least 250 - 275 wins. mid 2.'s ERA and at least 2500 Ks over a 15 yr career at least to show some longetivity.
I think if there are not players that qualify for the Hall in a given year that there should not be anybody or maybe one from the Veteran's committee.
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Post by crash23 on Nov 28, 2006 10:55:18 GMT -8
Scrapper - I didn't say the guys on the list belonged... I was just putting up their stats.
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Post by crash23 on Nov 28, 2006 10:56:38 GMT -8
Give Buckner a break. He wasn't the moron that removed Clemens for... Schiraldi! And then, worse – Bob Stanley! The Sox also left 14 men on base. It was rumored that McNamara left Buckner in so the veteran could be on the field to celebrate after they won… He said later it wasn’t the case – he left Buck in because he didn’t have another first baseman available. Who do you blame for losing game 7? Granted, if Buckner fields the grounder the Sox win but that’d be like blaming your son for losing a game. It’s always a team effort whichever way it goes. I believe if McNamara leaves Clemens in the Sox win. He wasn’t faltering and you ride your horse until he does.
As far as Buckner signing the picture I don’t like it either but it does kind of say to the world FU, I’m over it. The things fans have said about him are bad enough – but his kids and wife should not have to endure it. The guy has handled it with class and not went over the deep end like Donnie Moore. It shouldn’t forever ruin his life. Buckner had a solid year in ’86, driving in over 100 runs. He had a great year despite a severe ankle injury. He left it all out on the field and you can’t ask for more of a player than that. Few players in the history of the game have matched his numbers. The guy deserves better.
Back when I was a Pup (before you were born Mikey) Buckner was the scheduled guest speaker for our opening day ceremonies (for West Hills Baseball). He recently had surgery on his broken ankle – but he hobbled out there on crutches, made a speech and signed autographs for all who wanted. Class act then, class act now. Talk about the measure of a man. He measures up in my book. Here are a few facts about his baseball career:
Buckner played his first major league game in 1969 with the Dodgers (at the age of 19) and his last game in 1990 (at the age of 40) with the Red Sox. He won the N.L. batting title in 1980 with the Cubs. He was an All-Star in 1981. For his entire career, "Billy Buck" was known as one of the more consistent hitters in the major leagues: in 2,517 games, he accumulated 2,715 hits and only 453 strikeouts. For his career he averaged 20.7 AB/K (that’s better than the 18.5 for DiMaggio and the 10.9 for Williams. Originally promoted to the majors as an outfielder, he moved to first base when he joined the Cubs. At that position, he played 1,555 regular season games and, ironically, made only 128 errors in 13,901 chances.
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Post by trevor9 on Nov 28, 2006 11:12:35 GMT -8
I can always count on you Crash for useless information. What's next, stats backing up Dusty Baker's decision to pull Russ Ortiz against the Angels or better yet stats on how many foul balls Bartman caught that didn't cost the Cubs ball games. I pointed out that Buckner had stats worthy of consideration but a historic blunder will always come to mind (unfortunately). When I was a kid Jack Clark autographed everything under the sun with a broken arm for a bunch of my little league teammates, a nice gesture it was but I would hardly put him in the hall for it. So in "Billy Buck's" case stats aside, he still missed the damn ball.
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Post by scrapper on Nov 28, 2006 11:19:20 GMT -8
Thank God, ;D I was thinking that you were hitting the cab a little early.
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Post by crash23 on Nov 28, 2006 11:23:04 GMT -8
Talk about one of the great brain farts off all-time. I knew the moment Bake flipped Ortiz the game ball as a "memento" that the Series was over. Some times the baseball Gods get it right...
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Post by crash23 on Nov 29, 2006 20:24:15 GMT -8
Rocky Colavito is one of the best home run hitters of all-time. He reached 300 home runs faster than all but four players. He played 13 season but in his first and last season only appeared in a few games. His average of the 11 years he was a regular are impressive; 33 HRs, 98 RBI. He hit 40+ HRs three times and 30 + four times. He hit over 20 HRs 11 seasons in a row. His career batting average was .266. He also pitched in relief on two occasions, and was the last non-pitcher to record a win (until Brent Mayne did it for the Rockies in 2000). In his two stints he totaled 5.2 innings, fanned two, gave up one hit and no runs! He made his pitching debut in 1958 for Cleveland, pitching three scoreless innings. Ten years later, in his final season, he tossed 2.2 innings for the Yankees earning the win in the first game of a double-header. In the second game he hit a homer. His regular position was right field and his arm has been compared to Clemente’s. In 1965 he played in all 162 games without committing an error. He made the All Star team six times.
He was a fan favorite in Cleveland, always accommodating the hundreds of autograph seeker after each game even if it took a few hours. In 1976 he was voted the most memorable personality in Indians history, and in 2001 he received a huge ovation at the introduction of the Indians All-century team.
His stats over his 11 years as a starter are almost identical to hall of famer Ralp Kiner who had 369 HRs, drove in 1015 with an average of .279. that gives him an average of 33 HRs (same as Colavito) and 92 RBI (Rocky’s was 88). Kiner has never been regarded as near the outfielder Colavito was.
Almost identical stats, yet one is granted immortality and the other isn’t. Why?
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