|
Post by Chris on Jan 3, 2006 19:11:51 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Jan 3, 2006 20:54:13 GMT -8
personally i think that in the long run this will FORCE pitchers to be more efficient all while saving kids arms from being abused.
this could be a the kind of move that improves baseball in America in ALL age divisions as little leaguers get older and play in other leagues, divisions, and in HS
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 4, 2006 9:38:09 GMT -8
Yep - I think it was just about unanimous. Great for kids arms. Next year I think little league will prohibit breaking balls in Majors & below. It definately encourages kids to throw strikes and not go deep in the count all the time. It will also end the walkathon that occurs in the minors.
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Jan 4, 2006 15:16:40 GMT -8
if they ban breaking pitches though that could be a bit to far. and they might lose alote of their better players.
|
|
|
Post by Craig Cumberland on Jan 5, 2006 9:19:12 GMT -8
This should be a good move but banning curves and sliders, in the long run, might save more arms. A kid that throws 80 pitches with 30% curves is doing damage to his arm while a pitcher who throws 100 pitches and 30% change-ups and varying the speed of his fastball will probably have no long term problems. Not so for the kid throwing curves. It's pretty much unanamous among the top doctors in the country that specialize in orthopedics (Jobe, Andrews) that curves sould nt be allowed until at least 14. I think any coach that allows under-age players to throw curves/sliders does not have the player's best interest at heart... and the kid is not really learning how to pitch, but instead getting by with deception - which in the long run (if he still has an arm left in high school) will render him less effective than a player who has learned how to hit his spots and vary his speeds (from a young age). I think it's sad and ridiculous that kids are throwing curves (in travel ball) as young as 9. Last year I saw a nine year old throw about 40% curves... Players like that not only will not have an arm left in high school, they'll most likely have life-long tendonitis or arthritis. When I see my former players when they are 18, 25 or 40 I want to be able to look them in the eye and know I didn't allow them to do anything that might lead to life long debilitation. Bottom line is effective pitchers do not need curves or sliders in Little League.
|
|
|
Post by Rodney L. Voumard on Jan 5, 2006 11:20:45 GMT -8
I am with CRAIG on the BREAKING BALL TOPIC....young arms DO NOT NEED to be stressed.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 5, 2006 11:49:56 GMT -8
Come on Craig! You know its much more important to get the win than to worry about what a kids arm would be like as an adult...Geez!! ((tongue planted firmly in cheek))
|
|
|
Post by just my opinion on Jan 5, 2006 14:23:00 GMT -8
It is so funny how so many of these little league coaches seem to know more about pitching and hitting than some guys that have actually played in the major leagues. There are alot of pitching coaches that are teaching the kids, the breaking pitches at early age. It is not the pitch that hurts the kids arm it is the mechanics in which the kid throws the pitch. If you talk to alot of major league pitchers they will tell you they started throwing the breaking pitch very early. So before we start saying bad things about coaches that have kids that throw breaking pitches we need to know the facts and watch the kids mechanics because if he has proper mechanics he should not hurt anything in the arm or shoulder or elbow. But I guess some of us are not expert little league coaches.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 5, 2006 14:56:04 GMT -8
I don't claim to be an expert in any way. That is exactly the problem. I bet there aren't more than a few Little League coaches in this town that are skilled enough to teach proper pitching mechanics to a youngster. Hell, thats why I pay for lessons. Assuming thats true, it would be better to just not allow them.
You sure don't see any doctors or other baseball professionals "advocating" for young players throwing breaking balls. Little League International has a plethora of experts suggesting otherwise and I do believe they'll ban them in the next year or so.
|
|
|
Post by just my opinion on Jan 5, 2006 15:16:19 GMT -8
I have not seen anybody against either doctors or baseball professionals. I felt the same way you do about a couple of years until you actually get into the breaking ball mystery. The breaking ball can be thrown in the same motion as the fast ball the only thing that changes is the grip. I have seen kids be the hardest throwers in their league and the coach over use them and by the end of the season they have the same effect as if they were throwing a breaking ball. The arm is hanging and hurting even though they have been hitting their spots and changing speeds like I said before it it not the pitch that hurts the arm it is the mechanics.By no means am I an expert but I do not think it is right to criticize a coach that has a kid that can throw the pitch and be successful and not hurt the arm because he has proper mechanics. Then we say that the coach cares more about wins than the kids by all means what does little league have to offer except all-stars.
|
|
|
Post by GUEST on Jan 5, 2006 15:32:09 GMT -8
I think that the new pitch count rule is great. However, I am concerned that a pitch count will encourage some managers to instruct their players to take more pitches in order to get a 'stud' pitcher's pitch count up. I can just see it now, it is the 5th inning, a pitcher is unhittable, and nobody is swinging the bat because, pursuant to the manager's calculations, if the pitcher throws 15 pitches that inning, he will not be able to pitch the 6th. That is not baseball. With that said, the 85 pitch cap should be high enough to avoid any significant problems.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 5, 2006 16:01:04 GMT -8
Hmmm, thats a good point. I hadn't thought about that. I guess if you have a kid that can consistently throw strikes and umpires willing to call them that 85 pitches would be plenty. That would be a lil chicken sh** of the opposing manager but I bet it'll happen
|
|
|
Post by Craig Cumbelrand on Jan 5, 2006 17:24:23 GMT -8
If you do any research (on the web or elsewhere) medical experts have stated in study after study (for years now) that curves should not be thrown until 14 - 16 (depending on individual development). I'm not an expert but I have researched it and I trust those (MDs) who are. I do not put my kid's arm at risk by taking the advice of pro ball players or others that say a curve can be thrown by holding it a certain way. The problem with that is if you let a kid do that, he will tend to start turning the wrist over to get more "curve" to the ball. I was one of those kids that threw a curve at a young age b/c my dad was not an athlete and didn't know any better... and my coaches apparently didn't either. I was diagnosed with arthitic elbow at age 13 by Frank Jobe (he invented and performed the "Tommy John" surgery). It's given me fits ever since. Little League is anal about safety (at times) but yet they knowingly go against medical advice when it comes to curves... and these kids are throwing benders, not just "holding the ball a different way". It's just stupid. I've heard that Barry Zito began throwing curves when he was 11 or so... but that doesn't justify allowing all kids to do it any more than saying it's OK to let them start smoking becasue of the 90-something year old that has been doing it all their life and is as healthy as a horse. There's always exceptions to the rule - but why risk it? There's no valid reason because no one knows what the long term effects will be. There was a recent story on HBO's Real Sports about the increase in Tommy John surgery over the last few years - all the doctors advocated a pitch limit and banning curves. IMO, any parent or coach who is not an expert should take the advice of those who are (orthopedic specialists, not pro ball players) when it comes to their players health and future. They owe it to their players to do the research - if they do, it is overwhelingly conclusive that curves are not safe for Little League players to throw. If this comes off as criticism, so be it - I'm passionate about this issue (with no apologies)... but I believe I'm correct : )
And yes... there are managers who will tell their hitters to take to drive the pitch count up and attempt to run an ace out of the game, that's one problem with the new rule. Some migh call it strategy, but I agree with Chris.
:)If you do any research (on the web or elsewhere) medical experts have stated in study after study (for years now) that curves should not be thrown until 14 - 16 (depending on individual development). I'm not an expert but I have researched it and I trust those (MDs) who are. I do not put my kid's arm at risk by taking the advice of pro ball players or others that say a curve can be thrown by holding it a certain way. The problem with that is if you let a kid do that, he will tend to start turning the wrist over to get more "curve" to the ball. I was one of those kids that threw a curve at a young age b/c my dad was not an athlete and didn't know any better... and my coaches apparently didn't either. I was diagnosed with arthitic elbow at age 13 by Frank Jobe (he invented and performed the "Tommy John" surgery). It's given me fits ever since. Little League is anal about safety (at times) but yet they knowingly go against medical advice when it comes to curves... and these kids are throwing benders, not just "holding the ball a different way". It's just stupid. I've heard that Barry Zito began throwing curves when he was 11 or so... but that doesn't justify allowing all kids to do it any more than saying it's OK to let them start smoking becasue of the 90-something year old that has been doing it all their life and is as healthy as a horse. There's always exceptions to the rule - but why risk it? There's no valid reason because no one knows what the long term effects will be. There was a recent story on HBO's Real Sports about the increase in Tommy John surgery over the last few years - all the doctors advocated a pitch limit and banning curves. IMO, any parent or coach who is not an expert should take the advice of those who are (orthopedic specialists, not pro ball players) when it comes to their players health and future. They owe it to their players to do the research - if they do, it is overwhelingly conclusive that curves are not safe for Little League players to throw. If this comes off as criticism, so be it - I'm passionate about this issue (with no apologies)... but I believe I'm correct
And yes... there are managers who will tell their hitters to take to drive the pitch count up and attempt to run an ace out of the game, that's one problem with the new rule. Some migh call it strategy, but I agree with Chris.
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Jan 5, 2006 20:13:52 GMT -8
yes, as so far as what i have read and heard through various sources (cant really remember them right now) the 1 pitch that can do damage to arms, whether it be child or adult is the slider.
from what i have heard curves arent bad with proper mechanics. its the slider that kills you.
the Dodgers dont even allow their young draftees to throw it until they are older, if they have players with a history of arm trouble they try and wean them away from the slider and toward a curve or a change.
as far as what tony said about mechanics i agree with him that mechanics are more at fault with damaging arms than throwing curveballs.
there are kids with sound arms that can throw off speed and never have a down arm, while there are others that throw only fastballs that come down with tendinitis and other arm troubles.
this varies from kid to kid.
i know 2 kids from Los Banos that were supposed to play with me last year but didnt because they both came down with bad arms, and guess what they are both strictly Fastball Pitchers. one got put on ther shelf from ABUSE/OVERUSE (HS coach found the need to pitch him while games every game, he pitched against us once and threw 160+ pitches in the first game of league, in freshmen ball), while the other one went down from an old indury where he broke his arm.
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Jan 5, 2006 20:22:36 GMT -8
www.pitchingmechanics.com/BPM Philosophy Baseball Pitching Mechanics stated mission is as follows: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To improve young pitchers accuracy and speed while reducing the likelihood of injury through proper mechanics. To give young citizens, as they enter the world, the confidence that comes from success and achievement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We believe that there is an importance to sports which transcends the games. Sports provide an opportunity for children to find success, achievement and the confidence that comes with it at an early age. We believe that one of the most important things a person learns in their lifetime is that, quite simply, they can succeed. Unfortunately this lesson is not always learned at a young age, nor in the most constructive of ways. We feel that by demonstrating proper fundamentals and mechanics to young pitchers and letting them develop they will discover that the secret to success lies not in having the right pair of cleats or brand of glove. Rather it comes from learning what you need to know and applying those tools to the job at hand. Obviously this lesson applies to every area in a child’s life and certainly carries over into adult life in the "real world". Proper mechanics and good warm-ups are the best ways to avoid injury at any position in any sport. More than ever, there always seems to be some sport in season and yet another parent called to duty as a coach. Baseball Pitching Mechanics can be a hedge against many of the injuries that often afflict pitchers. Baseball is a lifetime sport with many players participating in senior leagues past the age of 50. The sport can provide a lifetime of enjoyment and accomplishment fostered by teamwork and commitment. We encourage everyone to stay healthy and enjoy the game!
|
|