|
Post by Byrd on Jan 9, 2006 6:49:37 GMT -8
First of all Craig I agree with you....pitching is not all about throwing strikes. It is about as you stated painting corners or making the hitter chase a bad pitch. We all know what good hitters can do with straight meat or heat down the middle. You must be able to move the ball around the strike zone and this as Craig said is going to run up the pitch count. I know when I played high school ball a pitcher could throw 12 innings a week...what is it now?? 10 innings? The innings limit in LL has been the same for how many years?? If they are going to limit it to a pitch count why is it not going to be used in the All Stars as well??
Mark lets hope that is what Mr. V ment because I have coached and watched his boy for 2 years and have not seen any fastball look like a curve yet....I have seen him throw a few changeups but again most youngsters telegraph their changeup through their mechanics. As you said tho I am sure some people that have not been around the baseball world could be confused. Now on to your pitcher young Willie G. I have seen him come up through the ranks and he has good stuff. I will agree that a good splitter could be mistaken but as I said in my earlier post there are not many if any kids in the LL ranks that are going to get that kind of movement on their pitches due to hand size. A curve is much easier for them to throw because they do not try to overthrow, but I am totally against young arms throwing curves. I have seen to many young arms ruined from it or elbow trouble at an early age. It will be interesting to see how this all works out and yes we all know how tense the LL enviroment can get out there. At times it is quite sad and or funny....have a great day all!!
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 9, 2006 14:46:45 GMT -8
Mr. K ~
That kid of urs has to be really bringing it now. I fear for all the kids at 46 ft. Looking forward to seeing you along the right field fence again. i kinda miss BS-ing with you.
I gotta admit I feel a lil like Cumberland as I wait for Spring. Should be a fun year
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Jan 9, 2006 15:45:58 GMT -8
I have seen him throw a few changeups but again most youngsters telegraph their changeup through their mechanics. yes, they do. they almost come to a complete stop when they throw them. the best thing coaches can do for their pitchers with regards to that is force them to throw with the same mechanics ALL THE TIME. kids think that because they slow down their delivery that their pitch will be slower and the batter will miss it. well it will be slower, so slow that the batter will have time to reload and push it oppo. the pitch will have a longer slower break as opposed to being throw with the same mechanics and arm speed as a FB where the pitch will have a more deceptive "Late break" and the ball will get on them faster not giving them time to reload im afraid it will happen, just hope it doesnt become a big issue agreed, you got to have long fingers and a pretty deep palm to bury the ball and little if any LL can do that. ======================================== BTW Brian and/or Craig what is your opinion of a youngster throwing a SF Fastball. i know when i first met Willie G. he was a Fastball/Curveball guy in Little League. when i got him i taught him a SF Fastabll which for a while (2 years) was like a changeup (as you stated small hands couldnt get movement on it). i told him it would take some time and that his hands were going to need to grow to get good movement. so through the junior leagues and travel when he threw it, it was pretty much straight, but it was plenty slower. he changed nothing, threw it the same as the FB it was all in the grip. the purpose of me teaching him that was to get him away from throwing curveballs as he was throwing a lot of them in LL. the kid is now a 16 YO sophmore with a very sound arm and three quality pitches (working on the fouth one a true changeup right now). he is now becoming more of a standout. he was always the best pitcher around in LL (2001, 2002) and in those days there were tons of dominant pitchers (keaton, inson, stuart, palacio, ect......) this past season he made the THS legion team as a rising sophmore and outpitched the entire team (including rising juniors and seniors). plus what he did for us this fall agaisnt 18 year old offensive oriented kids was really special. im curious to see if he plays JV or Varsity this year as a sophmore
|
|
|
Post by Byrd on Jan 9, 2006 20:10:26 GMT -8
Chris I am also looking forward to the LL season as you know how much I enjoy seeing the youngsters playing. Grayson has not really thrown much this winter as I have been busy with work and have mainly focused on trying to get his hitting mechanics down. His size and arm strength have always been good but he needs to grasp the mental part of the game more then anything. As long as he is having fun at this age is all I can ask for. I always enjoy BSing with you my friend because you do it so well...lol....looking forward to seeing you soon bro Mark I think the splitter is a great pitch at an age where a pitcher can actually throw one. I myself never threw much junk other then a circle change my last year in HS ball and in college. I was lucky I had a very live fastball with movement as I mainly threw a 2 seam FB 95 percent of the time in my day. I was blessed with 90 plus in HS with very good location so that was my bread and butter...move the ball in and out or up and down. Make the hitter hit your pitch is what I always believed in. My coach in college is now the pitching coach for the Modesto Nuts...Butch Hughes and he really developed my circle change while playing under him. I myself never threw a spitter but knew pitchers who did and this was back in the day when we called it a fork ball....some pitchers as you know can throw pitches that others cannot so you have to develope each pitcher or player for that matter in different ways. I see way to many coaches try to have all their pitchers use the same motion. I believe in taking what the man above gave us as individuals and fine tuning those strengths. You are a good baseball person and I am not telling you anything you don't already know so keep up the good work. Sorry for the long post but it was a long day at the office and I could talk baseball all day long!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 9, 2006 20:36:42 GMT -8
I always enjoy BSing with you my friend because you do it so well... Ha - ya Basturd!
|
|
|
Post by Craig Cumberland on Jan 9, 2006 20:40:26 GMT -8
It's my understanding that many pro teams have gone away from the splitter b/c so many pitchers hurt their arms with it, especially when it was really in vogue and so many pitchers were relying on them (perhaps too much). I've toyed with it just to see how it feels and it does but strain on the elbow so I'd be against it at a young age. Alot depends on how you hold and release it of course, but I prefer to err on the side of extreme caution w/ young arms. At the Little League level and travel ball level that my teams have played at (8 - 12 so far) my pitchers have had great success with nothing more than changes, fastballs, hitting their spots and varying their speeds. Of course they've had to b/c I don't allow curves But I think the savvy pitchers will succeed with this MOU for years b/c as they say, hitting is timing and pitching is merely disrupting that timing (and I'd say comfort level)... be it w/ curves, changes or fastballs high and in (of course I haven't taught the latter - yet!).
|
|
|
Post by Byrd on Jan 10, 2006 0:44:51 GMT -8
I am sure the splitter can be hard on an arm but it hasn't hurt "The Rocket" much over the years. I think it is as you said Craig mechanics is the big factor as it is with any pitch. Conditioning is another factor as it is with any arm. You mentioned earlier you blew your tendon on a curve. I blew my elbow out while throwing 95 percent fastballs. I agree with you 100 percent that a fastball and change while spotting location should be enough to get you by in the lower level of play. Personaly I never threw a curve until I was a sophmore in HS and only threw about 5 or 6 a game even in college. It is all about location and taking just enough off the fastball to keep the hitter guessing.
|
|
|
Post by Rodney L. Voumard on Jan 10, 2006 5:20:02 GMT -8
Good Morning Guy's-------------
Just to clarify my earlier post's. As LL looks at the CURVE BALL ISSUE- I just wanted to point out that MOVEMENT ON A BALL is quite different, than an intentional CURVE Ball. Just hope that umpires, et al---will understand/know the difference. I know from watching my son, he has not mastered the skill necessary to INTENTIONALLY create movement with his pitches, it will happen from time to time,
Have a good day ALL ;D
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 10, 2006 6:34:18 GMT -8
Rodney~ The real question for me is: Does he clean his room? Mine doesn't
|
|
|
Post by Byrd on Jan 10, 2006 7:43:41 GMT -8
Mine does an outstanding job of making his bed and keeping his room clean.....kinda scary really
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 10, 2006 9:04:19 GMT -8
damn! wanna trade?! He tells me all the time that he's a free agent.
|
|
|
Post by Byrd on Jan 10, 2006 18:06:06 GMT -8
I dunno bro, does he know how to use a pooper scooper?? You might have to throw in some cash otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jan 10, 2006 18:10:06 GMT -8
LMAO - As a matter of fact, I was just thinking that my yard was getting a lil ripe. I set up a trampoline yesterday and stepped in not one, not two but three land mines - UGH!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Byrd on Jan 10, 2006 18:26:47 GMT -8
LMAO!!!! I hope you were wearing shoes ;D
|
|
|
Post by Craig Cumberland on Jan 11, 2006 21:09:04 GMT -8
Fastballs do sometimes get mistaken for curves... I didn't take up baseball until I was 11 b/c I'd always played football. When I first started pitching I releasesd it from the fingertips like a football (Didn't know nuthin then either!) and fans would complain that I was throwing nothing but curves. It was comical... Course, they were probably the ignorant sort but some of the new umps don't always have alot of baseball savvy and may get fooled too, especially on circle changes. Some people think Ryan throws a slider but he doesn't - but at times his fastball moves quite a bit. I can see where there could be some confusion... I don't know how many times other coaches in travel ball told their players to watch out for the curve... I'd just laugh b/c I know we don't throw them. But some fools think that anything that moves is a curve...
|
|