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Post by mflema on Jul 19, 2006 20:10:07 GMT -8
Any experience AS Manager will tell you, to go far in AS, you need pitching. And then just when you think you have enough pitiching, you will need more. Pitch counts should always be done, even when it is not a rule. Conversation with parents and the regular season manager would prepare a AS mgr for the number of pitches a player can go. It is one hundred percent Stupid to allow young, or any pitchers to go with that many pitches. I was hoping that the pitch count rule that we adopted in Nat would of taught mgrs what we should do. Just because LL has the assinine pitching rules for all stars, does not mean we should do it. If you as a manager are dedicated to going ALL THE WAY you have got to conserve your pitchers.
I guess if I could change anything about our AS here in Turlock, it would be to have all managers, players, and parents to raise the standard to thinking about Sections, instead of only being happy to make the AS team. It is nice to make the team, but if you are going to advance in this progressive tourney, you are going to have to almost assume you are District Champ and Section is mostly yours also. Raise your expectations, and let the players know that your expectations is that they will be District 10 champs. They will then play as champs. Everyone needs to raise the standard. RP "knows" that they are District Champs even before they play the first game. It's the mind thing. Act the way you want to be and soon you will be the way you act. Act like a champ and soon you will be a champ. I think some of the old timers like Tony and I, Paul Cooper, Phil Salazar, and even the new kid, Craig Cumberland knows this. Everyone needs to set the standard higher, and not say 2 minutes after losing the District 10 championship game, "well that is ok, we almost won". Those 11's that were tearing up on that field after losing to RP, are the ones I want on my team. They were disappointed, and wanted more.
MEL
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Post by crash23 on Jul 19, 2006 22:57:04 GMT -8
New kid... lol! i haven't been called that in a LONG time No doubt. In order to beat the RiverParks of the world you have to have a team with one heart and one goal. Just being satisfied with being an all star is NOT enough. You have to have kids that understand that EXTRA work is required to be Distrcit champs. Many of our (AE) 12U kids have been working toward this goal (beating Riverpark) since they were 12. That was their top priority since they first lost to RP as 10s. They fell short. But their is valor in striving for greatness and falling short, and I am proud of their efforts. There is glory in victory and defeat... What would it have taken to beat RP? Practicing with the AS team all year. That would have got us closer. To beat them it would have taken 12 kids playing ball 9 months (or more) out of the year. Whether or not it is worth that much sacrifice (commitment) is an individual decsion... but it takes 12 players with this mutual goal to pull somethng of this magnitude off... plus their parents and a coaching staff to go with it. I take my hat off to Riverpark's players, coaches and parents and hope they go all the way to Williamsport. To do what they have done requires sacrifice and vision. They did what it takes. That's what success DEMANDS. Not for everyone, I understand... but those not prepared to dedicate themselves as fully as RP should not try to take anything away from what they have accomplished. What they've achieved is far from easy and, I believe, demands our respect. We can make all the arguments/excuses we want, but until a group of players, parents and coaches are willing to put the time in that RP did the arguments ring hollow... Also - and this is a big one - they follow the 1 - 3 ratio that LL suggests... They have 10 major team and 31 (or 37) minor teams (plus machne pitch and t-ball???) so very few players make it to the majors. As a result their major players are challenged at a higher level than ours are - and thus beter prepared for AS. They do not draft just to fill rosters out. The players that make it are READY. Many of our players are not. That's the bottom line, sometimes called the COLD HARD TRUTH. RP succeeds for a reason. Our goal, if we want to compete, is to figure out how they succeed - then replicate their formula. If we are not prepared to do that then we have no complaint and will have to be content with second best. That's the beauty of sports. Sacrifice, dedication and commitment ALWAYS pay off - but few are really willing to pay the price. Are our four leagues willing to come together and come up with a plan to compete? The answers are out there - but as I ask my players. What's bigger? Your ego or your will to win?
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Post by crash23 on Jul 19, 2006 23:00:03 GMT -8
Oops... that should have read "many of our (AE) 12U kids have been working toward this goal (beating Riverpark) since they were 10."
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Post by Chris on Jul 20, 2006 5:32:39 GMT -8
"WORD!"
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Post by kathy on Jul 20, 2006 7:22:08 GMT -8
Crying after losing a game is not an indication of how bad a player wanted to win. Every child is unique and handles situations differently. Just because one player breaks down and cries does not imply he wanted to win any more or less than a player who handled the outcome in their own way. We have always taught our kids to do their best and give 110% when they are trying to accomplish a goal, whether it is sports, academics, or a relationship. Life is more than winning and losing, it’s how it’s played. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If they know they have done their very best, that’s what’s important, regardless of the results. To hang or head or cry over a loss in a game that was played as hard as that one is heartbreaking. All those kids gave their all and wanted to win. They are all winners in my eyes! Our All Star team knew they were champs, Matt and Chris told them that from the get go. However, like it is stated in the post above, our pool from drawing these “champs” is limited. The coaches did the best for what they had.
Kathy Lopes
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Post by Mark on Jul 20, 2006 8:09:00 GMT -8
Crying after losing a game is not an indication of how bad a player wanted to win. Every child is unique and handles situations differently. Just because one player breaks down and cries does not imply he wanted to win any more or less than a player who handled the outcome in their own way. agreed
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Post by scrapper on Jul 20, 2006 9:19:58 GMT -8
I just think there is a small majority that want to take the best kids in Turlock and leave the rest behind and that is how you build a winner for all-stars. You guys pick the 12 so that everybody else can play in the minors and have fun. Are not the best kids playing ball for nine months through travel ball and Little League. Look at the 11's in national, You have most of the starting lineup for the Rangers then add Cumberland, Voumard , Serpa and Sniezk all all-stars, so the amount of baseball is being played. You have to look at the other side of this as well. It does take hard work and dedication to win on any level and takes fundamentals and repetitions of those fundamentals.
Lets take a real look at the Program. Some people have said that Riverpark should be split. Any league that has 10 Majors team and 31 minor league teams is two big. If you think about it per 12 players per team you have approximately 500 players. Your talent pool is going to be deeper. River Park is a good program, but what now gurus of little league baseball. They can be beaten and we proved that. So they are on a hot streak. Any Little League can get that way. Back in the day, my little league won four straight District Championships. Why, probably had a great bunch of kids come through the program. Bottom line, It is how you play between the lines.
The other idea is practice. How much you want to bet that they practice 5 days a week 2 hours a day. How many of our teams do that? What wins game is pitching and defense. How much of our practices are defensive and pitching or working on situations. runners on first and third down by one run. one out ball hit to center field where do you throw it. How many catchers in our league have been taught cut 3, cut 2, cut 4. AAA and Majors should all know that. How many teams work on cut offs and who is suppose to take the cut off and is that worked on in our practices.
That is the key to winning. These kids are 9-12 years old. You do not know on any given day who is ready to play or who has been sleeping all day. To raise the bar, the coaches from the draft on need to adopt the mentality that the minute you step on the field it is game on. I know some parents don't like that attitude because it is abrasive and it should be about fun and not whether you win or lose but just to play. If you want to win it ain't about that. But a lot of you already know that. Hard work is not fun. I'm sure we all have had that a-hole coach. But all the coaches I've had like that, I competed for championships.
Cultivating talent can be done by other ways than putting the 12 best kids together for 5 years and by the way the same best at 8, maybe not be the same when they are 12.
The old adage, YOU ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK. We need to improve that weakest link Only then will we be successful and move forward. We must be pretty close, we had three teams vying for the District Championship. We just need to get over the hump.
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Post by Chris on Jul 20, 2006 19:02:27 GMT -8
Melody ~
I'm sorry but no individual manager can overcome a league like RP and all their resources. Our Turlock leagues have done nothing to grow over the past several years. I agree with Scrapper the reason the 11s went as far as they did was a result of the extra effort put in by many of our kids and families through the Rangers and other travel teams.
Doing thing the same old way will get the same old results. BTW Mel, when was the last time you managed a team. Zach, Jens, Rickey, Jesse, Jacob Steven and even Andy had a bit of travel ball experience prior to the tournament as we put together a Longhorn team to get the kids ready for the season.
As for taking the criers, I agree with Lopes. If that is your criteria for attitude following a loss you have a lot to learn about youth development.
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Post by Mark on Jul 20, 2006 19:51:17 GMT -8
just a question because the games i actually got to go out and watch this year was very limited, but my question is and Chris and/or Crash might be best fit to answer
If National-National South and/or American-American East were 1 league would they stand a chance against Riverpark?
because based on what a saw from Riverparks website it appears that they may well be near around 100K for 1 league to have that many teams. they have close to as many teams in their one league as turlcok has in 4 leagues.
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Post by Chris on Jul 20, 2006 19:57:40 GMT -8
We'd probably kick their asses You have nailed the problem and it definately is related to numbers. Of course the nice facility probably attracts some talent to the area.
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Post by Greenie on Jul 20, 2006 22:01:27 GMT -8
Great reading guys and gals!! mcleanhatch... I think our Nats.11's proved they could compete with RP. The question I have is was this RP's best 11's or did their best play with the 12's and we played their 2ND. tier 11's? Like I said before it's tough to compete in AS when your league has 5 teams and you have 2 teams fighting for players ( not counting the 10's) I think having a nice facility is a major draw for any league. Take our field for example, I took a couple of boys over to the park early one day and there was a naked guy sleeping in the dugout. How many times do you see drunks passed out in the grassy area when the kids are warming up? We have to fight to get our practice fields and look at them they all are lousy. We practice at the Jr. High and you just hope someone doesn't get their head taken off taking infield. Then if you have older kids playing they are across town playing. Turlock has a great facility but it set up for the adults playing softball or the out of town teams that come to play tournaments while our kids suffer. We have a very nice group of kids coming up on both sides of town and I hope they don't get burnt out by playing so much baseball at a young age u12's. I know some boys only play baseball but as the month turns to August it only means one thing. Put the bat's and balls away and get ready for football boys !!
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Post by crash23 on Jul 20, 2006 22:25:27 GMT -8
A lot of folks worry about burn out - but I've been going at baseball for well over 30 years as a player and coach. My passion for the game, to my amazement, just seems to get stronger every day. I'd wanted to take a two week break after all stars before starting travel ball but every day players are coming over to play pick-up games at the aprk and all I heare is "when can we start practicing."
I, for one, don't just want to build for all stars and leave the best behind. Each level of LL (the regular season & all stars) has it's purpose. I believe in player development at all levels and each level has different needs - as does every team. For the kids who make all stars I know most want to go all the way to Williamsport as 12s (and as far as possible at the oter levels) - but to get there (today) you have to go thru RP. While their are obstacles, and I don't believe every RP team will be as strong as this year's 12s... I believe Turlock can compete but changes need to be made. Having a more competitive major program would be a major step. Re-drawing boundaries and getting rid of ares that we domn't draw many kids from would be another... stuff we've talked about here before. But I don't believe it will happen before my youngest is done - but I'd be willing to work on it none-the-less.
I applaud what Riverpark has done for what they've accomplished, the way they've done it, and for making Turlock raise the bar - and many of our players have. I'd like to see our leagues follow their lead and hve a 3 - 1 ratio. It's better for all our kids in the long run (and probably why LL suugests it;)
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rocko
LL Board Member
Posts: 209
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Post by rocko on Jul 21, 2006 10:12:21 GMT -8
This is good reading and things for our Leagues to think about in Turlock. And, Mel is right...Raise our Expectation of Where we Should be and this will force changes to occur.
From the reading I see a couple of themes surfacing:
1) [glow=red,2,300] Turlock needs to continued expand and strengthen connection between the Little Leagues and local Travel Teams.[/glow] Fact is that for those players interested in travel ball playing with friends makes it that much more special. The link provides great additional development of players. The Rangers have begun a nice trend here.
2) [glow=red,2,300] Review of Value of the Number of Major League Teams in all Leagues in Turlock.[/glow] Crash....I believe your assessment is right on. The ratio of Minor Leagues to Major Leagues needs to be re-evaluated. I personally feel there are too many Major League Teams. This results on an average of 4 players per team playing at the Major League Level that should not be there. This is nothing against these players or their coaches. This is a result of having to fill so many teams. However, it is unfair to place players in an environment where their success is limited. Especially, where these players can excel in the Minor league and strengthen their resolve, passion and confidence with the game. The process would simultaneously strengthen Minor and Major League Play Levels. If American/A. East and National/N. South were to interleague would we need as many teams? I know interleaguing has been tossed around in these discussions. It is a great idea. Interleaguing would add more teams to the schedule...while reducing the number of Major League Teams would increase the competitive environment through Major and AAA Divisions.
3. [glow=red,2,300]Emphasis on training and recruiting coaches as well as program approaches through out the year[/glow]. Here is another areas that needs attention. I for one did not grow up playing the game. I was drawn through my son. However, I played secondary and collegiate sports...so have a feel for training. Yet, effective practices...game strategies...and skill building is not addressed as a league. Rather, the current approach is each team for themselve and hope you have a manager and coaching staff who know what they are doing and if they do not hope they are comfortable in polling others for assistance. This is not a systemized approach. Rather, as Leagues we should establish Coaching Mentor Programs and a Fall League that emphasizes instruction (One Idea Grenade is a Clinic lead by season managers and coaches where interested coaches learn basic tips and players develop fundamentals, followed by two weeks of team practices, and perhaps 2 tourney style game play).
4. [glow=red,2,300]Modifications and Upgrade of the Current Facility will create a buzz for more players. [/glow]. Let's begin with proper restrooms, dugout security, and returfing the entire field. We may also look at some minor dust solutions like utilizing walnut by product on the dirt -- used commonly in local farms to reduce plant dust. More focus discussions need to begin with the City of Turlock on the importance that Little League can play in improving community. And, to this end pursue community service funding that support neighbor revitalization strategies. In the end, LL provides invaluable life lessons and structure to and estimated 800 youth in Turlock.
Turlock is capable of building an awsome program we have great people dedicated who have brought the program this far. Together, I am sure we can continue to build and make a difference. However, it is a matter of making some tough decisions.
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Post by scrapper on Jul 21, 2006 11:12:48 GMT -8
Rocko:
I think you have summarizes all of the conversations from the last year in those four paragraphs. Based on the number of players in our league (Turlock National) approximately 170 players, and using the 3 minor teams to 1 major team, we would have to drop 2 major teams to accommodate.
So approximatley 24 players would need to be dropped to minors. Here's an opinion, like everybody has one ;D is that you do it through attrition. So that all of the major players that are there stay, however, once the 12 years old leave at the next tryout have a major's tryout and and only have the three major teams and those who don't make it go back into minors and two more AAA teams are created. And if more kids come into the league, than more teams can be added.
Another idea is that you freeze the number of Majors teams and as more kids come into the league, more AAA teams are created, which I think that is the way we are doing it now.
Just some thoughts.
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Post by crash23 on Jul 21, 2006 14:37:22 GMT -8
If Turlock was one league as RP is and we could select the best 12s from all of Turlock then it would be one hell of a game between us and Riverpark...
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