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Post by crash23 on Dec 11, 2009 20:05:03 GMT -8
The ballot consists of:
Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Harold Baines, Bert Blyleven, Ellis Burks, Andre Dawson, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Tim Raines, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile
Ray Lankford? Modesto Hall of Fame for sure but not Cooperstown. Robin Ventura to the Cowboy Hall of Fame as an honorary clown for getting his ass kicked by Nolan Ryan. Shane Reynolds? Mike Jackson? David Segui? How'd they even make the cut???
A lot of others are good players, some on the verge of greatness, some showed flashes of greatness... but only a few sustained excellence long enough to be worthy - my vote for the Hall this year would be:
Dawson, McGriff, Larkin
Sorry Mark, without the 'roids you're just a nicer version of Dave Kingman...
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Post by trevor9 on Dec 12, 2009 10:16:54 GMT -8
I agree with Dawson and Larkin but not McGriff. I would say Trammell and McGwire should be in as well. Just because Mac took some supplements before they tested for them you wanna hold it against him? Remember "Gene", it's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Ethics. Pete Rose in 2011!!!!!!!! As much as I hate Barry Bonds, he deserves to be there when his time comes.BTW Jack Morris has better numbers than several pitchers that are already in the HOF plus he's been to the World Series with two different teams which makes him stand out even more.
****trivia question: what position did Dale Murphy play his rookie year?
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Post by crash23 on Dec 12, 2009 12:12:49 GMT -8
As usual your grasp of ignorance is amazing. McGriff averaged 25 homeruns and 81 ribbies a year for 19 years. Over his best 15 when he was in his prime and you could count on him for 30 HRs & a 100 ribbies. Not many guys in the Hall can claim that - and he was a class act. He's tied for 25th on the HR list with Lou Gehrig (493). He's 41st on the RBI list. Toss out the juicers and he's even higher on the all-time lists. He's one of those players whose numbers would look even better if it wasn't for the Steroid Era.
I agree with Morris - was there a better pitcher in the 90s? And yes, Rose too. He committed crimes after his playing career, not as a player... and we all know he'd never make it in as a manager - so ban him from gaining entry for what he was when he did the crime.
As far as McGwire you have your facts wrong detective... If you or I had been pulled over and found to have in our possession the pharmaceuticals he was putting in his body we'd have been arrested. Steroids were illegal then and now... so therefore why would MLB need to ban them???
Murphy's position as a rookie?? Too easy.
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Post by trevor9 on Dec 12, 2009 13:33:25 GMT -8
I'm sure someone of McGwire's stature had a doctor write him a script for his supplements, for which the letter of the law makes it legal. Maybe not ethical but technically legal. I doubt he ran down to Tijuana and smuggled them back like a common criminal. I don't think Andro and various other Balco products helped him hit a baseball, it might have added 30 or 40 feet to a couple of balls. Most people remember the summer of Sosa and McGwire before they could remember who played in the world series that year.
I know Crash you probably got choked up watching Cal Ripken Jr. break Lou Gehrig's consecutive games played record but how many slumps did the Orioles endure just to get to that point.......a few. I'm sure Cal took an Advil or two during that stretch. It shouldn't taint what he did on the field and I doubt the Oriole fans would rather watch Mike Bor.
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Post by Chris on Dec 12, 2009 15:14:55 GMT -8
I like McGriff and had he got 7 more home runs I think he would have been a first ballot lock. I hope he gets in with this class.
Games AB Hits Runs HR RBI AVG McCovey 2588 8197 2211 1229 521 1555 .270 Stargell 2360 7927 2232 1195 475 1540 .282 McGriff 2460 8757 2490 1349 493 1550 .284
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Post by crash23 on Dec 12, 2009 16:41:42 GMT -8
Hey Chris you actually used facts... Maybe Mikey will take notice. And C'mon detective, comparing Advil to 'roids. A little bit of a stretch don't you think? And if they'd been "prescribed" the feds might have subpoenaed the records don't ya think? Or at least by now the quack that did it would have wrote a tell all. I might give you Bonds Mike because before he tapped the syringe his numbers were Hall worthy - but you can't say that about Big Mac. Perry's lube jobs are one thing - he did what he did on the field and didn't get caught. Barry & company did it in the dark, out of public eye, and now don't have the sack to come clean... or should I say clear?
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Post by Mark on Dec 12, 2009 21:40:38 GMT -8
the only one on that list that i personally thought was an exceptional player.....or best at his position for his generation and many other generations..........was Roberto Alomar
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Post by crash23 on Dec 13, 2009 9:43:34 GMT -8
No doubt Alomar was one of the best all around players of the 90s. The spitting incident will forever plague him, and now with the allegations of AIDS & lawsuit there's another factor that writers may hold against him. He also tended to be moody, which writers hate. The real problem though is that his star faded early. After he was traded to the Mets his career took a nose dive. By his early 30s he couldn't find a job. Most Hall of Famers have longer and more sustained careers. But how many second baseman boast a .300 avg, over 2,700 hits, a bunch of steals, and could claim to be the all around threat he was? He was a switch hitter to boot. Few could match his genius with the glove. There's a cloud of controversy that overshadows what he could do in his prime, and few remember how he could take over a game like Rickey.
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Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2009 15:34:50 GMT -8
i guess the difference of opinion i have with many is that for a player to be HOF worthy, i feel a "player" should be 'great' or 'exceptional' and not just 'good' or 'very good', or 'very, very, good'.................
but then again thats just me.........
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Post by crash23 on Jan 6, 2010 16:23:17 GMT -8
Well, I was 1 for 3... Congrats Hawk!
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Post by Mark on Jan 6, 2010 18:38:26 GMT -8
well i was 0-1 so you got me.............
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