rocko
LL Board Member
Posts: 209
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Post by rocko on Jul 17, 2007 6:22:04 GMT -8
Just a question. How many of the twelves plan to return next year to play Jr. League? This year we fielded 6 teams total in Turlock that accounts for 72 slots. I figure at the Major Level we had roughly about 30 - 40 that were league leaders in play. If most returned we would end up with some quality play at this level.
Many have stated over the season how Jr. League is not competitive enough and will choose to spend their time in travel ball. Granted their is merit to this comment under the current conditions; however, Jr. League success will depend much on the number of quality players that choose to return. I cannot imagine their being a lack of competitive if the the likes of following players return:
Olsen, Essary, Garcia, Padilla, Mckiernan, Mendez, Kha, Lopes, 'Aguirre, Kennedy, Voumar, Gurr, Houser, Ruesga, McGarry, Serpa, Cook, Sousa, Thomas, Reza, L. Mendez, Backlund, Martin, Nelle, Padilla, Gomes, Brackett, Trainor, Jones, Allen, etc. (There are many more and this is not intended to be a complete list)
By my estimations that would add atleast 5 quality players to each of the Six Jr. League Teams.
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Post by mgianesin on Jul 17, 2007 17:11:10 GMT -8
My Son Zach (Olsen) will be playing Juniors next year:)... Maggie
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Post by rymanfan on Jul 17, 2007 17:31:31 GMT -8
My son Ryan Robertson plans on playing in Juniors next season. He will also be playing fall ball to improve those skills just a bit before next season. Lets hope Ryan hits a growth spurt before next season.
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rocko
LL Board Member
Posts: 209
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Post by rocko on Jul 17, 2007 19:01:49 GMT -8
Awsome....my son Andres is looking to Jr. play next year. I would imagine Travel Ball would be well into its play by the time we are done with football.
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Post by mflema on Jul 17, 2007 22:15:46 GMT -8
Pedro, are you asking about this year 12s? Or are you asking about next years 12s? If you are asking about this years 12's lets refer to them as next years crop of 13s. That will be a lot less confusing. There is a rule that if with BOD approval 12's can move up to Juniors. That was not approved this year, and quite frankly, I don't know why any BOD would approve it. It would decimate your current year of 12's since you do not have any control of which 12s move up. So when I first read this thread, I thought you were advocating for next years 12's moving up to Juniors. With the new rule that all 12's have to be drafted, unless the parents agree that they should remain in the Minors, (AAA), if we allow for 12's to move to Juniors we will totally lose control of team sizes and strength.
In addition, with the new policy in Junior and Senior league All Stars that Junior and Senior All Stars can play travel ball and all stars at the same time, I am hoping that no players feel that they have to make any choices between travel ball and Junior and Senior ball. They can play regular season play and continue with travel ball and during All Stars they can also. Only in Juniors and Seniors can they do this. To see this new rule go to LL.org and checkout the tournament frequently asked questions. MEL
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Post by scrapper on Jul 18, 2007 7:09:29 GMT -8
Mel:
Has there been any discussion on how we are going to handle that rule. Also, when is the next board meeting.
Thanks Dave
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rocko
LL Board Member
Posts: 209
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Post by rocko on Jul 18, 2007 14:30:11 GMT -8
Mel, I was OBVIOUSLY referring to current 12 year olds that will be playing as 13 year olds next year. I can think of no justifiable reason for any 12 year old to request playing up in the JR. Leagues. Frankly, in my 4 years in Turlock Little League I have yet to see a 12 year old that is that dominant. Besides why even do this as you throw away an opportunity for the 12 year old to play with his friends and have a great year. I sure hope Dads and Moms in Turlock are more intellegent than that.
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rocko
LL Board Member
Posts: 209
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Post by rocko on Jul 18, 2007 14:39:14 GMT -8
Playing Travel and Junior League is fine as long as players can hold their commitments to both teams. I do not take issue with playing both .... great ... if they can break to commit to the short Junior/Senior League Season. However, it is unfair for players to miss team practices because they feel they have already worked out with their travel team or not fully participate because they are tired from their morning routine. It is each manager's call; however, this is precisely what feeds the Bond (baseball), Beckman (soccer), Bryant (basketball) type of individudal center sport behaviors.
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Post by mflema on Jul 18, 2007 16:30:30 GMT -8
Pedro, I agree with you, but there were 2 players who quit the Braves this year because the BOD would not allow them to move up to Juniors their 12 yo year. They were II(d) players and opted to play with American, thinking that they would also allow them, which also did not happen. The manger of the Braves before Tony Domingos is the one that told them that they could do this. And since this was a problem brought before the board to us this year, it was not obvious to me that you were talking about the graduating 12s.
Just as some of the names in your list mention American or American East players, you only mention 6 teams. There are an additional 4 Junior league teams from American/ American East. With interleaguing between the 4 leagues there are 10 teams. If considering all the graduating 12's from all the major teams, the 4 from American, 4 from American East, the 5 from National and 3 from National South, that is 16 teams feeding into 10 Junior teams is not a bad number as most teenagers tend to start to decide to pick one sport over another at 13. It has been that way for many years.
I also would like to see our level of play to increase, but there are more factors that go into that they just the quality of players. We need the quality of mangers and coaches and the committment of those involved to stay at the level that the younger program has. This also has to start at BOD level. But this is not just a Turlock ptoblem.
Tony and I went to watch last nights junior game and when we watched Morada, not only did they have two 12 2 yo on the Junior All Star team, but the quality of the team was not the same as they used to have, but neither was the coaching. Morada at one time would never allow coaches to leave their league dressed the way those men were dressed, or trained the way they were. Morada had a system of 3 years of training for All Stars for the coaches and Managers alone. So all programs have had a hard time with the contraints that International has placed on us with the no minor league in Seniors or Juniors. It has a lot to do with the politics of the DA at International Congress and the fact that Eastern US has a lot more DAs then Western US and they run their leagues a little differently then us.
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Post by mflema on Jul 18, 2007 16:33:43 GMT -8
oops, accidently pushed the wrong button. Anyway, We are still working on getting the Jrs and Srs going forward in this league. But it is going to take more the just the BOD, and will take committment and dedication from the parents and players in order to get these leagues turned around.
You and I started it with setting a cut off date. Now if we can hold true to that and get all of the Board to understand why we can not back off that and to treat the two older leagues like we do the younger leagues, rules and all, it will make them the stronger leagues.
MEL
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Post by mflema on Jul 18, 2007 16:43:22 GMT -8
More of me, I did figure out your first post when I got to the bottom of it, and that is why I said I didn't figure it out at first. I just wanted to clarify it. Dave, I am not sure when the next board meeting is, and as for the 12 yo issue, we will have to figure that out as a board, so if I am elected, I will have to work on that. I think the best thing is to approach any parents of 12's who do not meet the basic numbers on the rubic that Pedro made up and speak to them. If they agree they have to sign an agreement and then the DA has to agree to that. I have gotten the feeling from our DA, that it will be pretty much a done deal as long as the parents agree to it. Mainly it has to be a safety issue. Managers and coaches may have to do a little bit more training this next year I guess otherwise. Again, I am sure they will have more coming out of International to do some guiding.
Pedro, as for parents being more intelligent, you surprise me, Being a Player Agent for a year and with your experience you can honestly tell me you can say that with a straight face? Good luck with your travel team.
MEL
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rocko
LL Board Member
Posts: 209
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Post by rocko on Jul 18, 2007 16:56:27 GMT -8
Mel, 10...only 6 show up on the website.... Anyways, I agree with most of what you have stated. Yes...I think more parents should stay involved. I for one plan to be involved in the years to come both at the Jr. League Level and at the Little League Level. Some one has to keep an eye on Greenie and Scrapper ;D ;D. And yes all leagues in little league are struggling to keep the same level of interest. I also agree with better managers and coaches training, but this requires a comprehensive programmatic approach that not only requires attendance of would be managers and coaches but also very close cooperation with the local high school and college programs. On the comment of parental intellegence....I was having a bit of fun....and sometime parent judgements are blurred. I like to lay out on this forum...because I am sure I am not the only one thinking this. Even with the 12 year olds from Morada...what were the parents thinking.
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Post by Chris on Jul 18, 2007 17:22:42 GMT -8
Jens will more than likely be playing but its his call.
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Post by crash23 on Jul 18, 2007 18:02:39 GMT -8
Ryan did not play Juniors this year (only one of the Rangers did). It definately was best for my son (can't speak for the others tho I think they'd agree). We had a lot of fun and played a lot of the area's top teams and made a lot of memories along the way... And playing at Big League Dreams is hard to beat! Getting 5 - 6 games a week instead of one or two is a pretty good deal, too.
I'm also glad he didn't jump from the 46/60 foot fields to the 60/90 (as he would have had to do playing juniors). I think the transition travel ball makes (going from 50/70 as 12s to 54/80 as 13s) is better. Now that he's playing 14U in fall (on 60/90 fields) juniors might be fine. I don't think the competition will ever be as good in juniors as in travel ball though... but next year? Dunno. Most of the Rangers are entering high school, so juniors might be an option for Ryan.
Travel ball and Juniors/Seniors both are great things, it depends on the need of the kids...
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Post by Mark on Jul 18, 2007 20:44:19 GMT -8
Mel, Frankly, in my 4 years in Turlock Little League I have yet to see a 12 year old that is that dominant. i believe your son was a 9 year old trying out the year AFTER my brother finished his 12 Yo year in LL. so you can add another 3 years to the 4 you witnessed. so that makes 7 years where there was only 1 kid that DOMINANT (yet he stayed at his age group), and right now he is playing 3rd base for Fresno State, and is a starter as a freshmen on a very good team. so that just goes to show that 12;s cant play up in the juniors and expect to be successful. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris: i remember a certain player you had a couple years back who thought he was good enough to be the best JUNIOR LG pitcher when he was 11 years old, thats sad, he was a good pitcher, but havent heard much about him lately have you? i think he is at Denair High?
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