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Post by Chris on May 22, 2006 12:09:22 GMT -8
Ok, in an attempt to educate bigchris & ourselves I am going to post another blown call. This one comes from a tenured umpire who is IMHO (in my humble opinion) the best umpire in the area. It's not an attack but rather an example of how even the best can get it wrong.
This happened in one of the Giants' games and I didn't understand the rule well enough to argue the point effectively. Although I did ask for a clarification.
Here's the call:Runners are on second and third with one out. A long fly ball is hit to right field and the catch is made by the right fielder (second out). The runner on third tags and scores. A play is then made on the runner at second who failed to tag and he is called out. The umpire agreed that the runner on 3rd scored before the 3rd out was made. He said the play on the runner who failed to tag at second was a force and NO run scores. IMO you score the run. Here are two links which clarify the correct call:
eteamz.active.com/baseball/boards/obrrules/message.cfm?id=1607332
eteamz.active.com/baseball/rules/obr/myths/
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Post by Greenie on May 22, 2006 15:49:18 GMT -8
I think we better stick to one blown call a week. This site can't handle much more then that.
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Post by Mark on May 22, 2006 17:27:15 GMT -8
it is not a force play in High School Baseball if that runner crosses home before the other guy is out, the run scores. if he is out before the runner scores then it is 3 outs and the run doesNOT score
i am not sure if LL and HS have the same ruling though
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Post by bigchris on May 22, 2006 17:41:37 GMT -8
the runner that crossed homeplate first should count. its not a force for the runner that didnt tag! just like when a kid is on second and the batter hits the ball scores the kid on second. then the batter gets thrown out at third. the run still counts.
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Post by Chris on May 22, 2006 21:03:53 GMT -8
yep - same in LL guys.
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Post by tmurphy on May 23, 2006 6:56:49 GMT -8
Chris as long as I have been umpiring high school and college ball I have not seen so many guys these days umpiring without knowing the correct ruling on calls such as this one. This is the most frequent call and you probably have alot more of these than anything in LL but any way the play at 2nd is an appeal play not a force play as long as the run crosses the plate before the appeal is made the run counts. The force is only in effect on a batted ball once the catch has been made and if the other team thinks the runner left early then it becomes an appeal play now if the runner just takes off right away then yes it is a force out.
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Post by Chris on May 23, 2006 7:36:20 GMT -8
Tony -
Do you score the run in the situation as described? Yep, we have a problem with both umpires and coaches not having a good sense on the rules. I don't know how you and Craig keep all the different rules straight when your playing BPA, USSSA, Super Series etc.
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Post by tmurphy on May 23, 2006 13:07:17 GMT -8
The run scores as long as he crosses the plate before the appeal is made. If timeout has been called you can not make an appeal until the ball is put back in play at that time you wait for the batter to step in the box and the umpire to put it back in play then have the kid step off and throw to the base the runner left from. Mainly in all the different organizations the rules are the same except pitching and the age cutoff.
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