Who and How are tournament brackets picked ?

[Randy Edwards]

DO the directors of the tournament toss the teams in a hat ? and choose who plays who , or is it set up by win\loss from other tournaments ??how does it work ? And question comes from looking at a few past events where JMO it looks like the Rangers always ends up is the toughest bracket to the championship. or is that just luck of a random draw ?

[trevor9]

Good question Randy, I know the A's run Rainbow for the most part and set the brackets up so that it seems to benefit them. Now on to Lance LOL, he does a good job with making it fair for everyone. If you don't teams will eventually not play in your tourney's. Lance did have one "bushleague" bracket a few weeks back were the Raptors got a few breaks and the Rangers got hosed but so what. He does put in alot of hard work and thats his choice. BTW- all that trouble he went through they still had to play the Diablo's in the end. hehehee

[Randy Edwards]

Trevor,
Thank You very much....I was hoping I was not the only one that noticed special bracketing

[tmurphy]

Everybody has their opinions but believe me it is not easy to put together. Lance does a great job of trying to help everyone he can if they need certain game times. The way I look at it is why should it matter because you have to play the best to win it anyway or do you just want someone to hand you the championship. I like it because Lance also tries to let you play teams you have not played before instead of the same teams every tournament. Looking at Lance's tourney this weekend and the brackets I thought he did a great job of making it even for everyone, after pool play the director has no way of making sure you seed 1 or 2 that is up to the coach and players. Bracket play is based on what you do in pool play and it is just the luck of the draw. So why not play the best early beat them and play the easier teams in the late rounds that way you can use your aces at the right time and have a hopefully not as hard a championship game. Just my 2 cents which does not mean anything.

[Randy Edwards]

(Bracket play is based on what you do in pool play and it is just the luck of the draw.)

That was my question is it luck ? or planning ?

I have no doubt that Lance or who ever sets the brackets up take all items into count. It just seems like it would stop all questions like the one I just asked if it was done as a lottery? Pick your slots for the pool and pull the names with all managers there. I don't believe anyone would complain that they never got to play team XY or Z.
Just a thought

[Mark]

I DOUBT MANAGERS WILL WANT TO TRAVEL AN HOUR OR TWO TO DRAW OUT OF A HAT

[crash23]

I've never felt Lance tried to do anything but the right thing. A lot of people have read into it, but I don't think he has ever tried to screw the Rangers over. If that were the case he could have set himself up this weekend but he didn't. Our bracket was no tougher than theirs. And as Tony says you got to get by the big boys to take home the trophy...

[lboullion]

Considerations in Tournament Brackets....

First of all, all teams are assigned a number and then the numbers are listed with the considerations below.....

1. First Accomodate Special Requests (some teams can't attend unless they play the first two games of the day or the last two.

2. Accomodate the furthest away teams for not playing early on Saturday.
This means that the local teams usually end up playing the first games of the day and sometimes against each other.

3. Check teams that I know have played each other a trillion times and do not place them against each other again or at least in back to back events. Dont put Teams like the Stockton Slam vs. Prove It (from Stockton) or Club All Star (from Stockton). Who wants to drive an hour or two to play your own town.

4. I do not match teams up that will blow each other out in 2 innings, like playing BYB vs. a first time team. That is not worth your money to anyone.

5. I look at the format and try to make it so that everyone has a chance to make the play-offs. We are starting to go with Sat. seeding, Sunday everyone makes the play offs.

I have been in a tournament where every team played the Royals and won 15-0 except us. That is giving up 0 runs. We didnt play them and gave up runs but still went 2-1. We didnt make the play-offs because we didnt have the easy game and it came down to runs allowed!

I try to make it fair. It is not always possible and someone will always complain. Sometimes they may have a legitament arguement.

I also try not to play a team both days at the earliest spot when possible.

Here is an example....


13u Manteca

First preseeded the Teams....1-14 (My rankings were almost dead on too.) Based on past performance and team strength

Then split up so ....

1, 8,9, 14 were together (average is 8. 50% chance of making play-offs) so worse ranking teams but lower avg. to make top play offs

2, 7, 10, 13 another bracket (average is 8, 50 % chance of making playoffs) same as above

3, 6, 11 (avg. is 6.33, 66% chance of making play-offs.) Better rankings but better chance of making playoffs

4,5, 12 (avg. is 7, 66% chance of making playoffs.

This way all the top teams should have made it to the play-offs.

Now #1 TABU had to play #8 Rangers and #9 Gamers.
Gamers should have had to play #8 Rangers but I couldnt have put TABU vs. Regulators due to rule number 4 above. So this was really not fair becuase we all knew TABU would be in the play offs and the second spot would come down to Rangers or Gamers and they didnt even get to play each other. It had to be runs allowed then runs scored. This makes travel ball not very sportsmenlike becuase you have to run the score up to make the play offs. That's another story though.



THe rest of the teams are just slipped in like numbers to the remaining field spots.

SOme people do not realize that other brackets effect where and when your bracket plays. I can only fit 6 teams on a field per day and if there is more then it needs to be spread over two fields.

Some teams like back to back over a two game break and that needs to be considered.

Here is an example schedule with 6 teams on a Sat.

Saturday Field 1

9:00 1 vs. 2 (Local teams or early request) By the way... the Rangers and TABU were the only two teams to request the first two games of the day so therefore they had to play!!!

11:00 1 vs. 3 (some one has to play back to back)

1:00 2 vs. 3

3:00 4 vs. 5

5:00 5 vs. 6

7:00 4 vs. 5

Then someone calls you and tells you that they cant play at 11:00 because one kid on the team has a soccer game and would you please change the whole schedule and effect 48 players and families so little Johnny can play in his game........

Then we have to change to another field becuase all the teams have to play early and so the 10u bracket has to change too or it wont work so call 5 teams and change it all.

THen the city of Manteca calls you and says that they cant play past 5:00 because of softball games and its our fault for not asking........ Teams get pissed and want money back but dont realize now it actually costs more to play due to using a new field......

No matter what I do Mike Torres or JIm Pernetti is going to Hottie, unless he wins then everything that wasnt ok 10 minutes ago is now ok!!

No matter how nice the fields look, Craig is still going to rake them.....haha!!

Scheduling is not easy and I had 51 teams to bracket this weekend.... I do not have time to remember when your team plays.

My favorite part is when someone comes up to me and asks, "do you know where we play or when?" I have 51 teams to think about, you have your own, so go look at the brackets and figure it out! HOnestly.

Or when someone asks after the first two games if they know where they are going to be seeded. The try to figure out if this team whens and only scores 10 runs and allows 7 we are number 6 seed but if that other team scores 12 and allows 7 or ties but doesnt loose by more then 8 they are number 4 seed and play at 10am on Field 3....

what til it is all done and then I'll tell you where and when you play....


Then you have to worry about the 10u bracket telling you that the umpires suck and they are the worst they have ever seen when they have had those umpires two weeks ago and they were just fine...... they won the week before so it was ok then but now they suck....but next week they will be great again...

What is with the 10u bracket? I watch there games and there is screaming on every play.... I go watch the 15u and someone gets thrown out at the plate on a questionable call and it is calmer then a strike call in the 10u bracket? Parents think it is the MLB at 10u. I had more problems from 3 teams in the 10u then the other 48 teams combined. It is the worst baseball to watch too (obviously) they are younger.

I argue with them that the guy on the other field said his umpires were the worst he ever saw so you two better go figure out who is the worst and if I keep firing the worst umpires they ever saw pretty soon we wont have any left and they'll have to do it. There are some pretty bad umpires out there I know.... but most arent that bad and if they were better, they probably wouldn't be doing 10u baseball anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then coaches want to give 5 trophies out to kids who never came this weekend but they are on our team and should get a trophy. I am sorry but if you werent here, why do you deserve a trophy. Do you get paid when you stay home from work??? I do, actually, so bad example..... How about when you miss school you miss out......NO trophy for Little Jose who decided to his soccer game instead of coming to your teams tournament. Maybe if he is in the hospital or his dog just dead, but your not there NO TROPHY. I wouldnt want my kid to get a trophy if he didnt earn it,,,,, it's stupid.

Now for baseballs. A foul ball is not yours to keep. This is not the major league. Why should we supply your game with any more then 4 baseballs becuase your fans were to damn lazy to walk 10 feet and pick up the ball. We started with 12 dozen baseballs and ended up with 4 dozen left after the tournament. That is 96 balls gone!!!!! $3 a piece do the math and wonder why we have to charge a gate......

Next problem.... pay the gate fee. It's not that hard. It is needed to pay for all the baseballs you take. Unless your Rainbow fields and want to charge $5 an adult..... Then they are just paying gas money. We have now out smarted teams in charging an advanced gate fee. You gotta pay in advance. No sneaking in. No rubbing hands together to get the ink on your friends hand.... No saying you are just here to talk or drop something off. We have heard it all. I find out what teams didnt pay and tell the head coach.

My favorite part is when a coach calls me on the phone during his game to tell me something. COach your damn game buddy. Or when a parent (usually a mother) demands that I solve a problem of theirs because she doesnt understand the rules. THis weekend it was.... "Could you please tell the umpire to move so my son can see the game better." I had to actually get up, go over to the game, and listen to her ask me this. I got right on that one. I will speak with score keepers and Head COaches only about problems. The rest of you, dont worry about it.

Really it's fun and you gotta love it.................

For those who dont know I teach 4th grade and running tournaments and dealing with coaches and parents is pretty much the same. I had a problem where both coaches said they had the dug out first. No I had it first..... We were here first, my bag was ther.... NO you left and we came so we get it..... No my parent didnt leave he was here.... Yeah, but he doesnt have a team hat or uniform on. .... I asked do you really want to do this before the game starts. They both said no and I said fine, you stay here, you go over there. Problem solved.


For those of you reading this, I hope you actually laughed and are not made because it is the TRUE side of travel baseball. If you are mad, then you missed the point. You were probably the parent or coach above.... Sorry....

Anyone who wants to run run tournaments is crazy or stupid. I am both, so I am over qualified.

L Boullion

[Chris]

Ha - Lance thanks for sharing all that - it was very informative. Was that diatribe cathartic for you? You do a great job! I said in an earlier thread you've done a lot for baseball in this town. Keep up the great work.

[trevor9]

Sorry Lance, after the first ten paragraphs I got kinda fell asleep. If you can have that crap published and get me a free copy I'll put it in the bathroom, it would be good motivation to pinch it off early.

[Greenie]

ROTF

[scrapper]

LMAO!

[crash23]

lboullion said:

No matter how nice the fields look, Craig is still going to rake them.....haha!!

Those s at Big League Dreams wouldn't loan me a rake!

[trevor9]

The best part of watching the games there (BLD's) was watching the kids dust themselves off after sliding, almost everyone did.

[Randy Edwards]

WOW... That will teach me to ask a question ?

Craig we looked for a shop vac but they refused ? (BLD said they would take care of the seeds)